June NMLRA nationals 2017

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Status
Not open for further replies.
First off let me start by saying congratulations to all who participated and you all shot very well, secondly I'd like to say that everyone handled themselves like pros. I'd like to also clear the air about a few things that have been said here and other places about the nmlra. Some of the matches we shoot in June are NRA matches, they do not recognize Blackhorn 209 as a black powder substitute so you cannot use it in those matches. Our rules have said for the last 25 - 30 years that if the BATF does not recognize a powder as a black powder substitute then you cannot use it on our range. No one's making up new rules about this. I'm also more than a little confused how about some people who think they're experts trying to tell us whats shot all around the country, like the comment made no ranges allow prone shooting, that person obviously doesn't shoot. Prone shooting has been done not only at friendship for more than 80 years but also at Camp Perry, Camp Atterbury, all military installations in the country and outside the country, Raton New Mexico, Ben Avery Arizona and just let me know I'll get you about a thousand more. As far as cross sticks go and not from a bench because Hunters don't use cross sticks that's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. How many benches have you ever seen in the woods. George Perry, you have done nothing constructive for the nmlra or the inline shoot in general, all you do is complain and talk about you don't like this or that. I don't know why you think you of all people are an expert but here's what I would say to you, I will personally pay you your membership fee back. I'm only interested in holding matches having fun and being safe shooting, you're only interested in stirring the pot and causing trouble. As far as the no practice Target we've been doing that there for over two decades. You obviously live in your own little world and shoot at your own range and make your own rules and then think they should apply to everyone, that's not how it works.


Joe Hill
President NMLRA
 
jwhill said:
if the BATF does not recognize a powder as a black powder substitute then you cannot use it on our range.

Joe Hill
President NMLRA
How is Blackhorn not a blackpowder substitute? or are you saying only the NRA doesn't recognize it as such ?

fact sheet:
2) Is Blackhorn 209 is a smokeless powder? NO, The regulatory authorities who determine the classification of energetic materials, The Explosives Bureau, U.S D.O.T. and Canadian Energy Research Laboratories have determined the classification of Blackhorn 209 to be US/UN PROPELLANT, SOLID, UN0499. Smokeless Powders are classified as POWDER, SMOKELESS, UN0161.

• Blackhorn 209 shares the same legal classification (Propellant, solid, UN0499) as all black powder substitutes, Triple 7, Pyrodex, American Pioneer, Shockey’s Gold and GOEX Pinnacle.
 
Only the NRA and assra currently do not recognize it.
 
as an outsider with no dog in this fight I guess if I ever decide to go to Friendship, which I have often contemplated, the decision is easy . I would take at least two guns. :mrgreen: one of my original 1:20 Discs or one of my 451 cal 1:20 Whites. They are definitely production guns. Then one of my Bestill customs for where allowed. I would take Blackhorn 209, 777 and maybe even some real black powder and a powder measurer :D

3 things would probably happen.

1. I would meet nice people and have fun
2. I would learn a lot
3. I would finish in last place. :mrgreen:

then I would come home resolving that next time I would do better...... :lol:
 
I'll weigh in...First off I do not know a lot about these matches and the rules so I am not qualified to pass judgement or make educated comments. So far this thread has been OK, minimal personal attacks, and as has been stated "it is in the right forum" and has allowed folks to air differences of opinions and possibly clear some things up. Maybe even clear the air and get some things out in the open and result in no hard feelings.

Having said all that...It bothers me that the muzzle loading community is bickering and at odds with one another. I have shared emails with several of the guys that work and put on these matches. Especially the one held in the town I grew up in, Oak Ridge, TN, and from what I can tell Rick does a great job with these matches. The future of muzzle loading has remained somewhat strong for the past few years and I hope these kind of disagreements don't weaken our sport. From where I sit the matches strengthen it!
 
1874, you come, you will have fun, hanging around the camp at night is just as fun. I'll get your dinner first Saturday of the shoot at my camp.
Halloflin, well said. Don't let the shooting get in the way of the fun!
 
jwhill said:
First off let me start by saying congratulations to all who participated and you all shot very well, secondly I'd like to say that everyone handled themselves like pros. I'd like to also clear the air about a few things that have been said here and other places about the nmlra. Some of the matches we shoot in June are NRA matches, they do not recognize Blackhorn 209 as a black powder substitute so you cannot use it in those matches. Our rules have said for the last 25 - 30 years that if the BATF does not recognize a powder as a black powder substitute then you cannot use it on our range. No one's making up new rules about this. I'm also more than a little confused how about some people who think they're experts trying to tell us what shot all around the country like the comment made no ranges allow prone shooting, that person obviously doesn't shoot. Prone shooting has been done not only at friendship for more than 80 years but also at Camp Perry, Camp Atterbury, all military installations in the country and outside the country, Raton New Mexico, Ben Avery Arizona and just let me know I'll get you about a thousand more. As far as cross sticks go and not from a bench because Hunters don't use cross sticks that's the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. How many benches have you ever seen in the woods. George Perry, you have done nothing constructive for the nmlra or the inline shoot in general, all you do is complain and talk about you don't like this or that. I don't know why you think you of all people are an expert but here's what I would say to you, I will personally pay you your membership fee back. I'm only interested in holding matches having fun and being safe shooting, you're only interested in stirring the pot and causing trouble. As far as the no practice Target we've been doing that there for over two decades. You obviously live in your own little world and shoot at your own range and make your own rules and then think they should apply to everyone, that's not how it works.


Joe Hill
President NMLRA

I guess you weren't paying much attention to the shooting of prone issues. I did not say that those places you mentioned didn't allow prone shooting. What I said was, many shooting ranges do not allow prone shooting and I also gave the reasons why. Which if you remember, was that most ranges that hunters shoot from, most generally have benches setup for the shooters. For safety reasons, those ranges do not allow people to shoot prone. If you'd like to check and, IIRC, we had a member here on this site that said he couldn't shoot prone on his home range.
As far as cross sticks and your statement that hunters liked using cross sticks, I think it was brought up on this site, with a large number of members and readers, where only a couple hunted using cross sticks. I've shot muzzleloaders since 1973 and hunted with and around many others. Never once have I seen anyone carrying a set of cross sticks, or have a bi-pod mounted on their muzzleloader. However, as also explained which you must have missed, the majority of hunters today shoot from stands, setting with shooting rails, or they shoot from some type of hunting shack. That may not be the case in the western states, where there are few trees or its all state or federal lands.

Now Joe, you say I've done nothing constructive for the NMLRA? Might I ask where the heck you've been? I've supported the NMLRA, its matches and competitions since I first learned about them and attended. I've done so on sites, including this one, where I've been beaten like a red headed step-child (right or wrong) for supporting "The Buckskin Boys". I did not give in to the beating and continued to SHARE all the information of flyers and shoot results. The Administrator knows, ask Hal if you'd like. I helped Bob W. when no one would help and/or listen to him. I've spent hours on the phone trying to first, calm him down, second try to give reasonable suggestions which he might consider. Hours. His IH match flyer.... ask him who created it for him when he was struggling. I tried, but did as he asked, when he asked me not to post the flyer on this site, because of those " " people on this site.
I've posted the information for the shoots in many states, including Indiana, the home state of the NMLRA, when not a single other person would let the sportsmen and women of Indiana know about the NMLRA or muzzleloader shoots. Here's a couple of this years postings for your entertainment and also proof. If you'd like you can go back a year or more on each of the following sites and see where I posted it then also. This is just a partial list of sites I posted and encouraged shooters to go to Friendship and the NMLRA home grounds.

https://www.indianasportsman.com/threads/if-you-dont-enter-go-watch.33868/
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=891877
https://www.michigan-sportsman.com/foru ... on.579621/

If you look around in the Michigan forum, you'll find where I offered to forego my shooting and help any new shooters who might want to attend Friendship for the first time.
I've talked with past Presidents and Directors about how to better involve or motivate new shooters to Friendship. I've suggested that a short video be made, so that new shooters might not be so intimidated. I've been asked questions, asked for suggestions and been more than willing to do anything that I could to help encourage new shooters to attend. And you say I've not contributed?????

I don't have a problem with the NMLRA and I'd like to make that clear here publically. I've already explained what I have a problem with, and that's the constant changing of rules that deter new shooters and some existing shooters. If you read above, the two time National Inline Champion just mentioned that he met a shooter who wouldn't shoot Friendship anymore since they took the benches away. People are pissed off, recognize it or not. Blame it on me and me alone, but the reason will be that I'm not going to be an "un-thinking follower". As a member I have the right to disagree with changes. Evidently you want only "un-thinking followers"? Many people have shared their total discontent for the latest rule changes. I'm not the only one questioning them, I'm just one that will discuss them openly. How about the PM that I sent you on FB, where I explained that I had a few suggestions I'd like you to review, months ago, and I never received a reply from you?

I'll say it again and its well known, including being published in Muzzle Blasts, the NMLRA is loosing more members than it can obtain new memberships. That being the case, it appears that other than the title, you're doing the NMLRA a disservice by getting pissed off at members who post questions/concerns, their right, then state publically that, "I will personally pay you your membership fee back." Did I ask you for them back? You made the offer on this site in front of everyone, do what you must, the site will understand.

As a leader, it would seem that you would be more willing to work with the majority of different shooters, gathering many different opinions, then selecting a committee of unbiased shooters to review EVERYONE'S opinions, then that team could come up with clear, well defined rules for the majority of modern inline shooters. When's that going to start? Good luck with the new memberships, when you publically offer to pay members back to leave!
 
the NMLRA is loosing more members than it can obtain new memberships.
a blatant lie, as we are up 3500 members since the first of the year
Might I ask where the heck you've been?
I'm in the office 2 to 3 days a week, got the Magazine change to color, make sure both shoots and all other shoots go off as scheduled, just worked 10 days in a row there, how many times you ever been to Friendship?
I've talked with past Presidents and Directors about how to better involve or motivate new shooters to Friendship.
Who??????What would their names be, I call BS.
How about the PM that I sent you on FB, where I explained that I had a few suggestions I'd like you to review, months ago, and I never received a reply from you?
I didn't reply because here again you just want the rules to suit you and your form of shooting and your rifle you don't give a crap about anybody else George.
As a leader, it would seem that you would be more willing to work with the majority of different shooters, gathering many different opinions, then selecting a committee of unbiased shooters to review EVERYONE'S opinions, then that team could come up with clear, well defined rules for the majority of modern inline shooters.
I do work with the majority of shooters and I do gather different opinions then select a committee of them by shooters they just don't include you I guess that's why you're confused. These rules that Rick Weber made will put forth to the rifle committee and approved and we do have clear well-defined rules if you came to Friendship you would have seen that. Here again speaking of things you do not know of.

This is my last reply to you as I can clearly see you are the type of person that has to get the last word. I am offering you personally and I did say personally your money back as it just seems you have nothing constructive to say or do. I've said it before I'll say it again I want people to have fun and shoot all you care about doing is beating dead horses. And please try and get your facts right before you spew all these lies about membership and all these pissed-off people you're talking about one or two people. You are not as popular as you think George. Don't ever question how much I do for this organization again I give more than you could possibly know to this organization I never put a dollar amount on what I donate or my time because that's not why I do it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top