Looking For Input

[ttrailz]

Does anyone know where to buy a Crossfire 2 breech plug kit for a Savage 10 ML 2 . I want to change over from 209 primers to Large rifle primers . I keep checking the modern muzzleloading site still out of stock . Someone else has to sell them . Also looking for someone reliable to work on one of my 10 ML 2’s . The barrel is one of those that was a new reamers first cut . Tight but way to tight . After 2 shots you have to be the Incredible Hulk to seat a saboted bullet even with motor mica coated sabots . I am going to restock it myself with a Boyd’s stock probably the prairie with a 1” pad . Input is greatly appreciated.

 

[Widude]

Just some questions, from 209 primers to large rifle, what do you gain? Do you need more flash, or another reason?

With the saboted bullet hard to go down the bore, what about adjusting the sabot or bullet slightly? I like perfect bore fit, not to tight or to loose.

 

[ttrailz]

I have 2 savage 10 ml2’s . One has a modified breech plug that utilizes large rifle primers . The other uses 209 primers . With rifle primers the ignition is hotter & more reliable . I have never had a squib load with the rifle primers . Shotgun primers another story . I can recall more than a dozen times 3 times at big bucks & 9 times at targets . Federal 209 A primers to be exact . Those same primers cost me a big gobbler in my 3 1/2” turkey reloads . Reliability is what I want & 209 primers don’t offer any . I used to shoot trap on Wednesday nights & Sunday mornings I had & witnessed many squib loads shotgun primers are unreliable that’s why they don’t use them in rifle & pistol loads . If they did I probably would have died in Vietnam.

 

[ttrailz]

Barrel reamer cuts vary from a first cut to the final before the reamer is trashed . If you get a first reamer cut the tolerances are greater than the last one . I prefer a tight fit as well but when you bend a ramrod that’s unacceptable . There are different thicknesses of sabots. I prefer MMP orange for .458 300 grain bullets . Nosler ballistic tip or barnes original bullets . I could step down & use the Thompson center yellow sabots & 250 grain yellow tip .451 bullets . Not my cup of tea . I also like hornady 325 grain .458 & 44.5 grains of AA5444. I use 57 grains of VV N120 with the 300 grain .458 diameter bullets . Not the hottest just the most accurate for me . To each his own accuracy & reliability is what works for me . No one will ever convince me otherwise I am to old to accept change .As for monkeying with bullet diameters not for me . The factory sized work fine no pulling down no swaging . No black powder either it’s corrosive & just plain filthy . I like the 1 shot 1 kill philosophy . I don’t like the smoke because I like the see the reaction of what I shot & which way it goes if it does not drop where it was shot .

 

[NicoleN]

I have 2 savage 10 ml2’s . One has a modified breech plug that utilizes large rifle primers . The other uses 209 primers . With rifle primers the ignition is hotter & more reliable . I have never had a squib load with the rifle primers . Shotgun primers another story . I can recall more than a dozen times 3 times at big bucks & 9 times at targets . Federal 209 A primers to be exact . Those same primers cost me a big gobbler in my 3 1/2” turkey reloads . Reliability is what I want & 209 primers don’t offer any . I used to shoot trap on Wednesday nights & Sunday mornings I had & witnessed many squib loads shotgun primers are unreliable that’s why they don’t use them in rifle & pistol loads . If they did I probably would have died in Vietnam.

OMG, that's a lot of bad primers. That's horrible luck. I just bought 1000 Cheddite 209 primers because that's what I could find cheap enough. I hope they don't go bad before I can use them all.

 

[ttrailz]

They will not go bad if you store them properly . I keep all my powders & primers in their own gun safe with a dehumidifier rod .primers all undergo a process that has several steps that are basically hands & eyes on . The primer manufacturers only let employees that have worked there for 20 plus years oversee the match & benchrest line . When shooting competition squib loads are counted as a miss & there is no redo .

 

[ElDiablo]

Never in thousands of shots have I had a 209 give me any trouble. Not sure what I’m doing right…

 

[ttrailz]

You haven’t run into a bad batch of primers . It’s bound to happen to someone eventually . If you shoot a lot of trap & skeet 10 rounds twice a week . I’ve had them with Winchester & federal but never with cci . Just don’t mention it to much . The Gods are listening .

 

[rangerod]

A number of years ago I had a bad experience with Winchester primers not igniting. I switched to the Federal 209A's and never had a single problem since. My Z5 has the LRMP setup and I love it. It's important to have confidence with whatever load you shoot.

 

[ElDiablo]

We aren’t talking high volume-shotgunning here. If you shoot a million of anything you’ll likely find a bad one (or a bad batch). Most muzzy shooters don’t shoot a brick of 209s in their lifetime. Find a batch that works and shoot those for hunting. Very simple.

There’s lots to go wrong in muzzleloader shooting - the 209 is very unlikely to be the issue. Sounds like you found that one batch of bad ones! I’d throw those in the trash, get some more and not worry about it.

 

[Widude]

I’m not familiar with your setup, breech plug & all. Besides the primer the BP flash-hole should be ‘optimized’ for B209 or whatever propellant one is shooting. After that & a proper primer is used, one checks the channel with the welding tip cleaner.

I’m kinda meticulous with setup before a hunt, but never had a problem with ignition & firing for decades. I do the IL deer thing usually, thought about using the 444 Marlin when they allow it next year. I may end up just sticking with my M-L. When that deer is at 125 yards or so, I’m better off with my Knight.

 

[jlynch75]

I only use 209's in shotgun shells. I've been shooting trap and skeet since the mid-70's and never had to 209 misfire.

 

[sabotloader]

I only use 209's in shotgun shells. I've been shooting trap and skeet since the mid-70's and never had to 209 misfire.

I agree - can't even imagine how many W209's I have cycled through in my different ML's.

 

[ttrailz]

I’m not familiar with your setup, breech plug & all. Besides the primer the BP flash-hole should be ‘optimized’ for B209 or whatever propellant one is shooting. After that & a proper primer is used, one checks the channel with the welding tip cleaner.

I’m kinda meticulous with setup before a hunt, but never had a problem with ignition & firing for decades. I do the IL deer thing usually, thought about using the 444 Marlin when they allow it next year. I may end up just sticking with my M-L. When that deer is at 125 yards or so, I’m better off with my Knight.

On key with the 444 Marlin in 2023 . I’ve been looking at the CVA Scout in 444 Marlin . I have a Marlin lever in 444 & it knocks deer off their feet . With the 265 grain .430 diameter Hornady FTX that I load .

 

[jlynch75]

444 Marlin great deer round. Have a friend his father gave it to him a Remington for his sixteenth birthday.

 

[Bull1]

A number of years ago I had a bad experience with Winchester primers not igniting. I switched to the Federal 209A's and never had a single problem since. My Z5 has the LRMP setup and I love it. It's important to have confidence with whatever load you shoot.

Years ago when I was participating in SASS events I got into a bad batch of Winchester primers. Several of us noticed the problem and it was like the primers were too hard and a second strike was needed. About 4 years ago I got an entire tin of Remington #11 caps with no primer compound in the metal cups. Never experienced either one again.

 

[Okie Hog]

Reloaded thousands of 20 gauge and 12 gauge shotgun shells. Used up thousands of Winchester 209 primers firing muzzleloaders. Never ever had a problem with 209 primers.

One CVA Magnum Hunter rifle had a weak mainspring and would sometimes misfire. That was corrected with the installation of a stronger spring.

 

[DavidAR10T]

Modern U.S. made primers that are not abused do not age. That is a statement by
CCI's head chemist. He wasn't only refering to their brand.
BH 209 powder last practically forever when stored properly.