seems like it wasnt too long ago you were pretty emphatic about having no interest in owning an inline ML. period. Now you can see the future?Just my 3 cents worth.
Since joining MM, and educating myself on inlines to prepare myself for the Optima V2 pistol, I have also been learning all about the SML world.
Phone conversations with Levi Reed, and others, have convinced me that the FUTURE for sport shooting, and hunting, lies in the demise of the brass cartridge case.
By eliminating the cartridge case from the equation, one frees up an ENORMOUS potential in the ordinary single shot bolt action rifle.
The ability to shoot extremely accurately at very long ranges for a modest investment in cash is also a great benefit.
If you believe in true hunting ethics, as I was taught as a child, then a single shot rifle becomes an asset, not a hindrance.
The demise of the brass cartridge case will not come quietly. Too many manufacturers have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in the brass cartridge case to let go of it without a huge fight.
Only the military, law enforcement, criminals, and citizens defending themselves from violence REQUIRE, AND DEMAND; rapid, multiple, REPEATED SHOTS.
But, looked at from a logical point of view, it is the next evolution for a sporting rifle. Whether for target shooting at any distance, or hunting.
seems like it wasnt too long ago you were pretty emphatic about having no interest in owning an inline ML. period. Now you can see the future?
Preachin to the choir brother. I have changed direction on MLs so many times my wife gets dizzy.🌪 Ive come 360° 3 times now. As for risk adverse engineers and big companies, as you said earlier, we're such a tiny fraction of the shooters/hunters that theres no profit in building what we WANT. Only in building what they can sell. We gotta build it ourselves or mod the product they make or buy a custom. There's no wrong way to shoot MLs. btw, i love to unload a stack of big @$$ mags from my AR just fer funMy heart will always be with a flintlock longrifle, or smoothbore trade gun. I fell in love with my country's history, it's history before it became a country actually. And the guns that helped build that proto-nation.
When I joined MM, I had just seen the radiologist at the VA, who was giving me the unwelcome 1 year follow-up news on my osteoarthritis. Which was, my shoulders were the ONLY area of my body where it was progressing, and it was progressing slightly more rapidly than he had anticipated.
At that same time, pre-Covid-19 social distancing restrictions, I was planning a move out of the homeless shelter where I have been living for some time.
Where, I had HOPED to start shooting M-L long arms (pistols were not in my thoughts), and to begin the process of fishing and hunting after a 30 plus year hiatus.
Which leads me to my recent posts, and their seemingly 180° turn-a-round from my previous statements.
Since I was given the unwelcome news that long arms were going to damage my shoulders, except for the lightest recoiling calibers, I had to rethink how to approach m-l.
There are very few commercial sidelock pistols that can TRULY be considered big game capable beyond 25 yards. None of them can be scoped easily without spending a fair amount of money, beyond a $100. I know, because I have done the research by calling various gunsmiths.
And, MY REALITY IS, I need an optical sight to ethically hunt. PERIOD!!!!
So, the 180° flip to Mt. Monkey's lightly used, CVA Optima V2 pistol.
And, ALL of my subsequent questions regarding inlines.
As far as smokeless m-l is concerned, that came about due to my conversations with Levi Reed regarding the M-REX 2 muzzle brake for the V2 pistol, and multiple conversations with Mt. Monkey subsequent to our trade.
Just because the chance of my owning a smokeless m-l in the near future is pretty low, does not mean my intellect is shut down, my mind is closed, and that I am incapable of asking questions to satisfy my immense curiosity.
I can see ALL the reasons that a cartridge case, or something equivalent to a cartridge case, is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for fully automatic fire with solid projectiles.
And, I can see ALL of the reasons that eliminating the cartridge case from the equation in sporting rifle applications is a HUGE technological advantage.
The main reason for the cartridge case was follow-up shots. Which led to all of the innovations that we have today, virtually all of which came out of warfare's needs.
When you get right down to it, only warriors, criminals, and people defending their lives from animals; whether 2-legged, or 4-legged, need fast follow-up shots. And that is where the cartridge case currently excells.
But, think about this.
One rifle for several lifetimes of use.
Only requiring the periodic replacement of barrels as they were worn out.
.30 caliber
Perhaps, 3 interchangeable barrels with different rates of twist.
Covering everything from the. 30 Carbine to the .30/.378 Weatherby
Requiring .30 caliber Swinglock-style sizing dies
Assorted burn rates of smokeless powders
Hankins, or Arrowhead-style primer modules
All based on a single action capable of withstanding the pressures of the hot, long-range loads with the heaviest bullets
With a REALLY GOOD out of the box trigger.
Maybe something like this does not currently exist, but people are already thinking along these lines.
With CNC technology, modern steels, the ability to market a rifle like described above for less than the price of a good used car is within our grasp right now in 2020.
It's just that NO big manufacturer will take the risk.
If little guys working by themselves can see the advantages, then the engineers at the big firearms companies can also.
They are just risk adverse.
Not if it requires any type of assembly by the user as the masses shoot most often 20 at a time and don"t know about scales other than weighing themselves!Just my 3 cents worth.
Since joining MM, and educating myself on inlines to prepare myself for the Optima V2 pistol, I have also been learning all about the SML world.
Phone conversations with Levi Reed, and others, have convinced me that the FUTURE for sport shooting, and hunting, lies in the demise of the brass cartridge case.
By eliminating the cartridge case from the equation, one frees up an ENORMOUS potential in the ordinary single shot bolt action rifle.
The ability to shoot extremely accurately at very long ranges for a modest investment in cash is also a great benefit.
If you believe in true hunting ethics, as I was taught as a child, then a single shot rifle becomes an asset, not a hindrance.
The demise of the brass cartridge case will not come quietly. Too many manufacturers have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in the brass cartridge case to let go of it without a huge fight.
Only the military, law enforcement, criminals, and citizens defending themselves from violence REQUIRE, AND DEMAND; rapid, multiple, REPEATED SHOTS.
But, looked at from a logical point of view, it is the next evolution for a sporting rifle. Whether for target shooting at any distance, or hunting.
While I understand your enthusiasm for muzzle loaders, I would disagree with your assessment of cartridge firearms. Without getting into a technical discussion of the value and efficiency of brass cases, my concern is your statement that "only the military, law enforcement, criminals etc." require and demand multiple shots. Using the word "only" implies that you think the only legitimate weapon for the average citizen is a muzzle loader. If that's your argument I reject that in it's entirety. As shooters of any kind, we either hang together or we will hang separately. When we begin to distinguish between different types of guns, and criticize their owners because we don't happen to like or use them, we make it much easier for all guns to eventually become outlawed.Just my 3 cents worth.
Since joining MM, and educating myself on inlines to prepare myself for the Optima V2 pistol, I have also been learning all about the SML world.
Phone conversations with Levi Reed, and others, have convinced me that the FUTURE for sport shooting, and hunting, lies in the demise of the brass cartridge case.
By eliminating the cartridge case from the equation, one frees up an ENORMOUS potential in the ordinary single shot bolt action rifle.
The ability to shoot extremely accurately at very long ranges for a modest investment in cash is also a great benefit.
If you believe in true hunting ethics, as I was taught as a child, then a single shot rifle becomes an asset, not a hindrance.
The demise of the brass cartridge case will not come quietly. Too many manufacturers have hundreds of millions of dollars invested in the brass cartridge case to let go of it without a huge fight.
Only the military, law enforcement, criminals, and citizens defending themselves from violence REQUIRE, AND DEMAND; rapid, multiple, REPEATED SHOTS.
But, looked at from a logical point of view, it is the next evolution for a sporting rifle. Whether for target shooting at any distance, or hunting.
While I understand your enthusiasm for muzzle loaders, I would disagree with your assessment of cartridge firearms. Without getting into a technical discussion of the value and efficiency of brass cases, my concern is your statement that "only the military, law enforcement, criminals etc." require and demand multiple shots. Using the word "only" implies that you think the only legitimate weapon for the average citizen is a muzzle loader. If that's your argument I reject that in it's entirety. As shooters of any kind, we either hang together or we will hang separately. When we begin to distinguish between different types of guns, and criticize their owners because we don't happen to like or use them, we make it much easier for all guns to eventually become outlawed.
For what it's worth, I've hunted in the US for the past dozen years or so with a Ruger single shot rifle in .300 WM, because I do like the idea that the first shot has to count, or the rest may not matter. But I don't look down on anyone who hunts with a bolt gun, or semi-auto. The requirement for a hunter, in my opinion, is to quickly dispatch the animal, and the reality is that sometimes requires more than one shot. Otherwise, why do any of us carry extra powder and bullets with our muzzle loaders?
Wow! You people are killing this thread I normally don't say anything about topics going askew but lately it's all about my opinion vs yours. This thread about SML in different states was goin' good and could have been a good resource for someone who clicked on the thread title but not now. So please
its not that one is more accurate or needs for follow up shots or warfare, it is for convenience , man is lazy , unload end of day and put away the rifle.and most hunters really don't want to be bothered about measuring loads , marking ramrods, they just want to load and fire. The other factor is liability because people make dumb mistakes, one double charge and your doomed
Updated to 30cal/20 gauge.Georgia now allowing 30 caliber muzzleloader in primitive weapons and regular rifle seasons.
My heart will always be with a flintlock longrifle, or smoothbore trade gun.
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