Primer crush

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I have a Knight SML and another Knight subs gun Both are getting quite a bit blow back on the primers I took the bolts apart to make sure they were clean Is it possible I didn't reassemble them back to where they would get more crush on the primers? I have no gap between the firing pin housing and the bolt housing Both parties I bought them from I am sure said that the primers come out very clean HELP Thanks Lou
 
OK finally getting time to get to this.

I am not the best writer in the world so I am hoping this makes sense to most.

Headspace or the lack of can be one of the biggest reasons that a primer from the battery cup is forced up into the hammer hole in the face of the bolt.

If you look carefully at this picture of a Knight NFPJ Breech Plug you can see the SS shim installed in the bottom of the primer pocket to achieve a 'primer crush' and 0 headspace with a given primer. And in my case it is modified to accept W209 primers.

InstalledShim.jpg



Most new rifles in the Mountaineer series and possibly the new Extreme series have a much tighter 'tolerance' on the depth of the breech plug pocket in the barrel. On the other hand older rifles like the Original DISC the tolerance level was much lower. In those days no-one thought about a clean breech. I have two Original DISC's that the breech plug need to be shimmed to 0.025" to achieve 0 headspace. Even older DISC Extremes/Elites can vary by as much as 10-15 thou.

It seems to me the new Mountaineer series can vary but 0.005" and some will require shimming. Not all of this is dependent on the depth of the BP hole. If the bolt length is off just a little it will greatly effect the head space. Even the rear of the bolt and how it closes can effect headspace. So it really does not have to be one thing.

It really helps if you determine the measurement of what shims you might need to fix your problem before you start shimming. The shims for this process come in 3 thicknesses and 2 OD sizes that you can use.

OD sizes.... there are a group of shims with an OD of 0.241" that will drop right into the primer pocket. With these shims you can just keep adding shims until you feel the primer crush. Then add up the number of shims you have installed and you will know what you might need. The 0.241" will then fall out or can be easily pulled out to empty the primer pocket.

The second OD size shim is a 0.248" shim and will/can pressed into the primer pocket. This shim will stick and stay in the primer pocket - you will not be able to remove it. So before installing these shims make sure you know the size you need to use.

This is a package of 0.0248" x 0.032" shims -probably a size you will never need but they are available.

0.032%20Shim.jpg


This picture shows a 0.0248" x 0.005" shim inserted in the top of a BP ready to be driven down with a spent 209 primer and a plastic mallet.

PP%20Shim%20Close.jpg


This link should carry you to the McMaster-Carr catalog page for the correct shims

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3249/=10geukw

This is a second link to the press fit shims…

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036R ... 1_1&sr=8-1

For the 0.241 OD shim look in the group of shims labeled -> 18-8 Stainless Steel. Three sizes 5 - 16 - 30 thou thickness. I see no reason to get any 0.030 shims, followed only a few would ever need 0.016 shims. The 0.005 is probably the best all around for testing to achieve the correct fit.

For the 0.248" OD shim look in the -> Spring Steel section -> for shim thicknesses of 5 - 15 - 32 thou. These shims can be pressed in for a permanent fit.

An easy way out of all of this is to use high pressure rubber "0" rings... they normally last about 50 shots.

Achieving 0 to near 0 headspace is a real desirable in my mind.

Shimming Continued

This is the method that I use to get to correct amount of shimming in place.

With the breech plug installed snuggly in the rifle
1. Remove the bolt assembly from the rifle.
2. Remove the hammer/firing pin assembly from the bolt
3. Reinstall the bolt housing in the rifle.
a. When you push the bolt forward and release the handle it should just fall down into the closed position – ne resistance at all.
b. Next install a primer in the nose of the bolt and repeat the test.
i. If the bolt handle falls to the bottom again then you need to into install shims in the primer pocket to get the correct headspace.
ii. If the handle does not fall to the bottom and you encounter some resistance the head space is probably near correct. It should take some effort to push the bolt handle down.
If the handle falls to the bottom with no resistance with a primer installed you will now need to find out how many shims you are going to need to install. For this operation I use the .214 x .005 OD shims. Also during this process the breech plug should be very clean and DRY, so the .241 shims can be easily removed.

1. Remove the breech plug and drop 1 of the shims into the primer pocket. Use a spent primer to make sure the shim is pushed all the way down and sitting on the primer shelf.
2. Install the breech plug in the rifle and repeat the steps above. Make sure the .241 shim does not fall out of the BP while doing all of this.
3. If you still do not get any ‘primer crush’ install a second shim and repeat the process.
4. When you do get ‘primer crush’ them pick out 4 new primers and repeat the test on each primer to see if all 4 feel as they are ‘crushing’.
5. Remove the breech plug and get all of the .241 shims out of the primer pocket. Count the shims to make sure you have them all out.

With this information you now know how many .248x.005 shims you need to install to achieve ‘primer crush’ and 0 head space.

When installing the .248 shims – place the breech plug on a smooth flat surface.
1. Place a .248 shim in the top of the BP primer pocket.
2. With a pair of needle nose pliers grip a spent primer place it on top of the .248 shim and with a small mallet tap the primer and shim down into the primer pocket.
3. Make sure it bottoms out and is sitting on the primer shelf.
4. Install the BP and bolt housing and test for ‘primer crush’
5. Repeat this process until you have achieved 0 head space.

If you do not want to purchase the extra .241 shims you can use the .248 process one shim at a time to shim your BP. Just remember once they are installed – they are not in most cases ever coming back out.

So be careful and go one shim at a time.
 
So by putting a gap between the bolt and the firing pin till I get a good crush? So the bolt face will force the primer into the hole more? One thing on both rifles I had to remove the bolts each time to get the primers out If I remember years ago when I had Knight rifles after firing all I did was turn the rifle side ways and the primers fell out?
 
You want to have a slight crush on the primers when you close the bolt. Above, Sabotloader describes how to shim the pocket and use the feel of the bolt closing to accomplish the crush. I measure the primer out if the box and then after closing the bolt. I add shims until I get .005 of a crush. You will also feel it in the bolt pressure.

The stuck primer is a whole different thing. The pressure of your load is forcing the primer back into your firing pin hole. Dry fire it and it and the primer should fall out. Not much you can do to fix it but change loads and primers until it doesn’t do it. Or change your priming system.

Hope this helps.
 
Adjusting firing pin in bolt assembly wont help primer crush.

Firing pin assembly should be screwed all the way in then back out at least one turn then align detent notch.

Use federal 209a primer.
Make sure flame channel is clean with 5/32 drill all way to flash hole.
Make sure bolt handle is completely closed.
Verify flash hole is. 031 to .038


To remove primer cycle bolt and restrike primer with firing pin
 
Adjusting firing pin in bolt assembly wont help primer crush.

Firing pin assembly should be screwed all the way in then back out at least one turn then align detent notch.

Use federal 209a primer.
Make sure flame channel is clean with 5/32 drill all way to flash hole.
Make sure bolt handle is completely closed.
Verify flash hole is. 031 to .038


To remove primer cycle bolt and restrike primer with firing pin

Excellent point on the flash hole impacting a stuck primer, if it too large, you'll have excess pressure back on the primer.
 
The flame channel in an inline functions much the same as the delayed blowback system in a pistol. Upon ignition the pressure in the barrel leaks thru the flash hole and starts building up pressure in the flame channel. Before the pressure can build to the point where it makes the primer stick the bullet exits the bore and the pressure drops right back. The volume in the flame channel is a key component of this system and if it has reduced volume due to fouling the pressure will rise more rapidly than designed and caused sticky primers. An oversized flash hole will also raise pressures faster than designed with the same result.
 
If the Knight sml is the one I sold you use Winchester 209 and it will be perfectly clean. I had no problem with the primers sticking with the loads I shot with either Federal 209A or the Winchesters.
 
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