Super 91 barrel

I have a Super 91 .504 that has a tight spot in the breech. I slugged the gun and found the bore to be .505 so I sized my slugs to .5048 (I cast my own). They load like a dream until they get about three inches from the face of the breech plug, then there’s a loose spot about a half inch long, I would guess, then it tightens up the last 2” until it pushes out of the gun, so much so that I have to tap them down. I bought the gun used. They push out at .5042 -.5038. So I would call that .504. My guess is someone’s fire lapped the barrel. I have scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed the bore at the breech end and it appears to be super clean. Any ideas??

sdporter said:

I have a Super 91 .504 that has a tight spot in the breech. I slugged the gun and found the bore to be .505 so I sized my slugs to .5048 (I cast my own). They load like a dream until they get about three inches from the face of the breech plug, then there’s a loose spot about a half inch long, I would guess, then it tightens up the last 2” until it pushes out of the gun, so much so that I have to tap them down. I bought the gun used. They push out at .5042 -.5038. So I would call that .504. My guess is someone’s fire lapped the barrel. I have scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed the bore at the breech end and it appears to be super clean. Any ideas??

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Internal Barrel ring, Bullet slid off the Powder Charge and Was shot, Possibly? From what i read this tends to be more of a Problem, Or better chance of happening the Farther the Slug is Up the Bore, But can happen anywhere. You want the Bullet to Sit Tight on the Powder Charge. With Breech plug in, When you push a Tight fitting patched Jag Down can you feel a Difference in this Spot?

agree with Lewis sounds like a slight bulge from a conical being off the powder charge a bit.

Idaholewis said:

sdporter said:

I have a Super 91 .504 that has a tight spot in the breech. I slugged the gun and found the bore to be .505 so I sized my slugs to .5048 (I cast my own). They load like a dream until they get about three inches from the face of the breech plug, then there’s a loose spot about a half inch long, I would guess, then it tightens up the last 2” until it pushes out of the gun, so much so that I have to tap them down. I bought the gun used. They push out at .5042 -.5038. So I would call that .504. My guess is someone’s fire lapped the barrel. I have scrubbed and scrubbed and scrubbed the bore at the breech end and it appears to be super clean. Any ideas??

Click to expand...

Internal Barrel ring, Bullet slid off the Powder Charge and Was shot, Possibly? From what i read this tends to be more of a Problem, Or better chance of happening the Farther the Slug is Up the Bore, But can happen anywhere. You want the Bullet to Sit Tight on the Powder Charge. With Breech plug in, When you push a Tight fitting patched Jag Down can you feel a Difference in this Spot?

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Does the ring show on the outside of the barrel? Use calipers to check.


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How is accuracy in this barrel? 25 yds to 100 yds.

I believe Lew is right. If you think about it White’s bullets were slip fit so they go down very easily. So it’s quite possible the bullet moved off the charge. I know one time I was hunting and doing a lot of walking when I noticed my bullet was sticking half way out the bore. So yea what Lew stated is quite possible.

this is why I always fire a 40 gr squib load before loading gun to hunt, fouling helps to keep bullet seated plus makes your 1st shot go where you want.. also Doc White recommends it.

edmehlig said:

I believe Lew is right. If you think about it White’s bullets were slip fit so they go down very easily. So it’s quite possible the bullet moved off the charge. I know one time I was hunting and doing a lot of walking when I noticed my bullet was sticking half way out the bore. So yea what Lew stated is quite possible.

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Internal Barrel ring, Bullet slid off the Powder Charge and Was shot, Possibly? From what i read this tends to be more of a Problem, Or better chance of happening the Farther the Slug is Up the Bore, But can happen anywhere. You want the Bullet to Sit Tight on the Powder Charge. With Breech plug in, When you push a Tight fitting patched Jag Down can you feel a Difference in this Spot?[/quote]

Yes, you can feel a difference in that spot. I haven’t checked the outside of the barrel with calipers to see if there is a difference. It’s right about where the barrel tapers down a bit I think. I just put the gun away. I’ll drag it back out and double check it. All my Whites except one, are used and none of them shoot like my original new out of the box Whitetail, at 100 yards. I just haven’t been able to group it well at farther distances (300-400 yards). I know the gun is capable and I will shoot anything I stuff down it from the original White Buckbusters to the NE 460 to my copied mold of the Buckbuster and my newest designed mold

toytruck said:

How is accuracy in this barrel? 25 yds to 100 yds.

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I haven’t checked it at 25 yards but 80 and 100 it’s terrible from 3” to 6” depending on the charge. I spent all afternoon with it last Sunday shooting weighed charges of Pyrodex Select. Started with 80 grains (100 grain equivalent) and went down four grains at a time to 60. Cleaned the gun before the first group, shot a 50 grain fouler, with a slug on top of it, then fired the three shot group. Repeating this process for every weight of powder. Three inch was about as good as it got. The groups were walking art over the target also shooting at the same bull. 76, 72, 68 grain charges all impacted about the same within about a 6” circle.
60 grains were lower with one of the 60 hitting off the target and blowing rock holes into it.

I always fire a Squibb also before loading to shoot at anything. But last Sunday I added the slug to it just to try and make sure I had second shot consistency going on. My .451 S91 almost always throws the first shot after a Squibb a little lower than the next two shots.

sdporter said:

Internal Barrel ring, Bullet slid off the Powder Charge and Was shot, Possibly? From what i read this tends to be more of a Problem, Or better chance of happening the Farther the Slug is Up the Bore, But can happen anywhere. You want the Bullet to Sit Tight on the Powder Charge. With Breech plug in, When you push a Tight fitting patched Jag Down can you feel a Difference in this Spot?

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From what I understand the “Ring” is more common inside the Bore, You can feel it easily with a Good Snug fitting Patched Jag. Not always will you see, or feel anything from the outside.

This is why I've never subscribed to the 0.001" under bore "slip fit" conicals for hunting. Target shooting isn't a problem.

For hunting, I'm shooting 0.001" over bore "no slip fit" bullets in a clean bore. Climbing around in the Rockies or on the back 40, is not the time to find out your bullet has migrated off your charge.

With all of that said, some of those Wilson .504 caliber barrels had loose spots in the bores on brand new rifles. So it doesn't necessarily mean that someone ringed the barrel, or fire-lapped the bore.

What bullet weight and lead/alloy are you using? Using a wad? I've never seen or heard of a White shooting that bad with any bullet or powder.

Busta said:

This is why I've never subscribed to the 0.001" under bore "slip fit" conicals for hunting. Target shooting isn't a problem.

For hunting, I'm shooting 0.001" over bore "no slip fit" bullets in a clean bore. Climbing around in the Rockies or on the back 40, is not the time to find out your bullet has migrated off your charge.

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:yeah: This is something i have PREACHED AND PREACHED Here, i even made Videos of “Bump Testing” This info is all through out my posts on this forum. I shoot more Bench/Target than anything, And in this application (controlled environment) i MUCH prefer my Slip fit bullets, My full bore lead is sized to just “Kiss” the Bore on the way down, And obviously the Same goes for my Paper Patch Bullets. But When i hunt, i want my Bullets good n tight from start to finish, No exceptions for me here! The only time my Hunting bullets will Move is when i pull the trigger :yeah:

I've said it before and will again..all that is needed for a slip fit conical in a White (first shot) on a clean barrel is to wrap the conical in white plumbers tape once. The bullet will go down snug an stay on the powder!! Then if a second shot is needed your bore is fouled and no worries.

I shot at a 3 point buck in early Nov. this year, miss judged the distance, an shot under him. He wasn't scared, but did jump up, by the time I got the S91 reloaded again he was gone. I walk out to the other end of the corn field and he was there, gave me another shot at 60 yds an the 480 bullshop dropped him DRT. I don't usually need a second shot, but things happen (usually my fault) an I get another chance, sometimes...or not.

It works, I have done it many times and have meat to prove it!

toytruck said:

I've said it before and will again..all that is needed for a slip fit conical in a White (first shot) on a clean barrel is to wrap the conical in white plumbers tape once. The bullet will go down snug an stay on the powder!! Then if a second shot is needed your bore is fouled and no worries.

I shot at a 3 point buck in early Nov. this year, miss judged the distance, an shot under him. He wasn't scared, but did jump up, by the time I got the S91 reloaded again he was gone. I walk out to the other end of the corn field and he was there, gave me another shot at 60 yds an the 480 bullshop dropped him DRT. I don't usually need a second shot, but things happen (usually my fault) an I get another chance, sometimes...or not.

It works, I have done it many times and have meat to prove it!

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That Teflon Tape trick is something i have Read about (might have been you?) I have never tried it myself. I will have to experiment with it Some :yeah:

I had all of my Custom bullet molds Cut oversize so i could size them per Bore. And even then with pure lead the Bullet would “Give up” about halfway down (They Strip out) by the time they hit the powder Charge there is very little, if anything holding the Bore, in my ALONE search for a solution to this problem I came up with the idea of trying a little Harder alloy, i settled on 1-40, Works like a Dream! :yeah: Lot of folks are in denial that their bullets will Slide, Which is one Reason i did the “Bump Test” Videos to prove that they ABSOLUTELY will Back off the Charge

Lewis, I can't say it will work in just any bore, but I do know for a fact it will work in my White .451 and .504 bore Super 91's with Bullshop conicals and BatChief conicals.

I agree with the others....it sounds like the barrel has been ringed because of a slipped bullet. Man that is sure a bit of bad luck. I like the teflon tape idea too. I wonder if a first round that is paper patched would trash the accuracy?

badgerfarm said:

I agree with the others....it sounds like the barrel has been ringed because of a slipped bullet. Man that is sure a bit of bad luck. I like the teflon tape idea too. I wonder if a first round that is paper patched would trash the accuracy?

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I'll have to try the teflon tape idea, I could also build a new sizing die and size the slugs a little larger. Been thinking of copying the 600 grain slug only leaving a hollow base to get the weight down to around 500. The extra length may give it the stability to make it through the loose spot. If I re-barrel, gonna go .41 cal