CVA Paramount Update

lptroll said:

Anyone shoot this gun yet? Anyone purchase one yet? Waiting to see accuracy reports from anyone who has their hands on one. Found a store that has 4 in stock but afraid to say where as I am close to saving up enough cash to purchase one. Shoulda put one on layaway as soon as I found it.

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One guy and one report is all I've seen:

"I got it on paper. This is using the power belt bullets and 150 gr of BH209. I gotta get a resizer to start shooting Fury ST2 bullets."

I have one. Been to hot to shoot here the last couple weeks. Plan on doing more testing this week. I will say so far I’m very pleased. No leaking that I am aware of and less than a MOA at 200 yards. My expectations were to consistently shoot 6” or better at 400 yards. I’m confident it will after the 200 yard groups. Only shot the PowerBelts so far. Have several different Parker bullets I want to try. If I get out this week I will post my results.

ENCORE50A said:

And?????
Pretty much the same thing, exact same target photo, except for I didn't add his additional comments further in the post ???

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Just wondering what other comments they may have posted? I think the ZERO leaking at the breech is quite significant, and also confirmed by Razor in his post above. I honestly never expected that, and would imagine that after a few firings on the Variflame adapters, that may change?

Do you have a link to his report? I'd like to read it.

Razor said:

I have one. Been to hot to shoot here the last couple weeks. Plan on doing more testing this week. I will say so far I’m very pleased. No leaking that I am aware of and less than a MOA at 200 yards. My expectations were to consistently shoot 6” or better at 400 yards. I’m confident it will after the 200 yard groups. Only shot the PowerBelts so far. Have several different Parker bullets I want to try. If I get out this week I will post my results.

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Thank you for posting your results. I will be looking forward to your results with the Parker bullets.

Toby has been one of the few to put together some sabot data for the Paramount. One thing i found curious is he is only getting around 2060fps shooting a 260gr DC with 130grV load of BH209. A 200gr SST with the same load is only clocking 2250ish fps. I would have guessed higher. My Pacnor (209 ignition) was well above that with heavy loads of BH209 but it does have a 27" barrel.

Busta said:

.........…. Do you have a link to his report? I'd like to read it.

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Its on the smokeless facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1502847130016495/

ENCORE50A said:

Its on the smokeless facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1502847130016495/

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Thanks, but I'm not a member so I cannot read it. Seems kind of dangerous posting it on a smokeless Facebook page, when it clearly has not been approved for smokeless. Some may get the wrong idea?

Busta said:

Thanks, but I'm not a member so I cannot read it. Seems kind of dangerous posting it on a smokeless Facebook page, when it clearly has not been approved for smokeless. Some may get the wrong idea?

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That issue has been brought up a number of times by different members. I myself have no clue why its allowed, but I don't run the site.

Here's one of his following statements: "Actually this is 9 shots. I did not notice any blow back. Breech plug was still clean."

ENCORE50A said:

That issue has been brought up a number of times by different members. I myself have no clue why its allowed, but I don't run the site.

Here's one of his following statements: "Actually this is 9 shots. I did not notice any blow back. Breech plug was still clean."

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So, these were probably the first time any of those Variflame adapters were ever fired? I guess we'll have to wait and see how they are still doing after being fired 5 or 10 times? That is where the reality will be.

Thanks for trying.

I’ll spoil the end of the story for you. It’s going to leak.

lwh723 said:

I’ll spoil the end of the story for you. It’s going to leak.

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I already knew that it wasn't a matter of will it leak, but a matter of when.

CVA had one rifle at the NRA Show in Indy back in April. It had several hundreds of shots on it without cleaning. It had some soot and carbon in the receiver when you opened the bolt. I'm thinking this was shot with the same reprimed Variflame adapters, over and over?

I didn't ask all the details, because that is the first thing I would change, if I were to ever get one.

ok cva sent me two new bolt springs (a spare is always nice) to replace the original, with a link to a video. The spring is definitely beefier and allegedly designed to prevent blowback issues. I will get a chance to shoot this Thursday and I will report back. Also CVA has in there new catalog a 209 Breach plug specifically for the paramount, however no one including CVA has it yet. They have 108 on backorder at CVA 109 with my order today. I would like to try that as an alternative just because that vari-flame is too much time cleaning sealing issues etc. I guess I'll get it when I get it, This muzzleloader business is teaching me patience. hahahaha

I guess you don't really shoot a muzzleloader because you're in a hurry.

How will the 209 breech plug work with the spring loaded bolt? It seems like the bolt would still have some pressure against it that would push against the spring. Seems
Like a long with the 209 BP they would need a fixed bolt to really eliminate the problem.

If it has a spring in it, then i bet that spring can be shimmed with a bushing or washer...or even replaced all together with some kind of bushing. Set that sucker to a .003 crush and let her rip. If enough of the primer is IN the breach plug they will handle a lot of pressure. Just requires a good plug to primer fit and a little bit of primer selection by length.

If the 209 plug were like my NULA you dont even have to worry about primer OAL. You can head space off the primer rim. It handles 209 sabot loads with far more peak than the vast majority of smokers shoot. Easily good for well over 32kpsi with virtually zero blowby. It takes a huge amount of BH209 plus a heavy bullet to reach that kind of peak sabotess. Highly unlikely you will reach it with sabots even in a 45cal.

Midway has Paramounts on sale at 945.00 dollars

Tried 8 shots with the new spring. Its better but it still leaks. Appears some variflame adapters are more sealed than others. About 3 I pulled out clean and 5 had some form of blowby. Hoping the 209 plug once it becomes available both is leak free and is still accurate.

You will see no accuracy difference between a 209 plug and a Large Rifle System . The only real difference you will Experience Will be with the flame channel and flash hole. With 209 plugs the flame channel tends to collect fouling quicker than a Large Rifle System . Also with a 209 plug your flash hole or bushing will erode and increase faster than a Large Rifle System . If both systems are clean ( 209 vs LRP) in my opinion they are equally accurate with both systems having very close to the same Extreme Spreads.

With all that said I personally prefer a good Large Rifle System because I shoot a considerable amount and for the reasons previously stated a LRP System is easier on your breech plug .

I am trying to restrain myself from buying a Paramount .My curiosity is killing me .I would love to see what this gun is actually capable of . I’m sure Luke will have a fix for the LRP System soon on the horizon .

Cecil’s Varaprime System is a joke that has never worked . I can not believe CVA adopted that LRP System when there is soooo much better ignition systems available !

Thanks for the info. I am brand new to muzzloading and this is my first ml. Anyhow I am not familiar with Luke but I see his name in various posts. I'd love to make this gun better as it's very accurate so far. Any advice is greatly appreciated

Got out to shoot sat but was cut short by the rain. The target below is two, three shot groups at 100 yards. The top one is with the PowerBelt ELR 280 grain with 100 grains by weight of BH209. The lower one is with Parker 275 Match Hunter sized to .4505 with the same charge behind it. Never claimed to be a great shooter and I really believe I pulled the last shot on bottom just a hair. First 2 cut the same hole. Used one dry patch between every shot and allowed to cool for 10 minutes. Yes there was a little blowback evident after shooting. This ML is a shooter and hard to imagine what’s it capable of in better hands. If someone comes up with a better ignition system I will try it as long as I get the same accuracy. If not, I don’t mind a few minutes cleaning the small amount of residue left behind. Also shot a 3 shot 200 yard group with the PowerBelts at just under 2” and then rain moved in. Still lots of playing and testing to do. I will post more results if anyone is interested.

Leaking isnt just a cleaning issue. Its also a flame cutting issue. Every time it leaks its eroding some metal from the plug, module or both. The flash hole can erode much faster in a leaky system. As the flash hole grows more pressure reaches the primer.