Weight vs speed

Energy=mass x velocity squared. Yes? Shouldn’t we all use the lightest bullet for the caliber involved.

I am new to this game, have mercy

the formula answers your question

Yes. Unfortunately, most popular ML projectiles are not very aerodynamic. Basically the lighter the bullet, the less aerodynamic (Ballistic Coefficient- BC). The farther down range they go the worst they are.

Think about why a 50BMG uses a 700gr projectile.

If you’re only shooting 100-150yds a Roundball is quite efficient.

gregsalmon said:

Energy=mass x velocity squared. Yes? Shouldn’t we all use the lightest bullet for the caliber involved.

I am new to this game, have mercy

Click to expand...

Another rule for you - "double the velocity quadruple the energy"

+ one other thought - your thought will not hold up in most instances with a true lead ML bullet. If you go to light with a lead conical it can tend to blow up on you on contact. So in that case heavy lead is better than light lead!

gregsalmon said:

Energy=mass x velocity squared. Yes? Shouldn’t we all use the lightest bullet for the caliber involved.

I am new to this game, have mercy

Click to expand...

These chart can be found on Hornady website. They show why it isn't necessarily best to use the lighter bullet. The heavier bullet begins slower, but around 150 yard out is now faster. Also note that even though the energy is a function of the square of the speed, the faster bullet, even initially, has less energy than the heavier.

You certainly can find a lighter bullet that can be made fast enough to have more energy, initially, than the heavier bullet, however the heavier bullet flies better, and will eventually have more energy.

Now for my opinion............me, i believe the much lighter bullets of the same caliber, aren't as accurate as the heavier.....just my opinion.

Most jacketed bullets will work reasonably well in a sabot if they are hollow pointed, of course some are better than others. just remember accuracy is the most important thing. an XTP with a low price tag or the best but expensive Lehigh will both do the job when well placed.

Thanks! Great replies!

Always keep in mind the one thing that trumps both velocity & energy.....ACCURACY!
Always be willing to give up a little something if necessary to maintain the best possible accuracy.

I didn’t notice what you were intending to hunt or what distance you think your shots will be. This is another factor

Lightweight bullets with high power charges may perform very well but they can also get really Squirrley really fast, especially as you stretch out the yardage. You’ll also want to check how the gun shoots with the same load from warm weather to cold weather because it may change drastically

If you’re a long range shooter, a balance somewhere between mid weight and heavy weight will carry the energy you need much better then a lightweight bullet at long distance. It will probably buck the wind better as well at long-range.

I’m not going to get into things like sectional density & how certain light weight long body Bullets can out perform heavies at long range.
There are always exceptions to the rule but for the average shooter they don’t apply.

Greg

GregK said:

Always keep in mind the one thing that trumps both velocity & energy.....ACCURACY!
Always be willing to give up a little something if necessary to maintain the best possible accuracy.

I didn’t notice what you were intending to hunt or what distance you think your shots will be. This is another factor

Lightweight bullets with high power charges may perform very well but they can also get really Squirrley really fast, especially as you stretch out the yardage. You’ll also want to check how the gun shoots with the same load from warm weather to cold weather because it may change drastically

If you’re a long range shooter, a balance somewhere between mid weight and heavy weight will carry the energy you need much better then a lightweight bullet at long distance. It will probably buck the wind better as well at long-range.

I’m not going to get into things like sectional density & how certain light weight long body Bullets can out perform heavies at long range.
There are always exceptions to the rule but for the average shooter they don’t apply.

Greg

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I think this says a lot and is spot on in my opinion. Personally I consider energy. At my pistol range limits I shoot a lighter weight bullet as fast as I can accurately knowing that inside those limits I have the energy and velocity for the bullet to function properly. With the long guns I shoot a heavier bullet as fast as I can accurately knowing that I'll have the velocity needed for the bullet to function but I'll also have sufficient energy for the bullet to clear the animal. Yes, I could shoot a 250 grain pill at 100 yards and get the job done more often than not, but the 300 grain bullet quite simply delivers far more umph [energy] and that's what I want.

Hello Gentlemen...I have a question please... From what Im reading...the consensess is that 300+ grain bullets are cat's butt! First I appreciate all your help and totally respect ALL of yours combined knowledge!! My question is...what on earth do U need 300+ grain bullets for average everyday whitetails under 200 pounds for pleeze?? ALL those deer for 100 yrs that were shot with 150-170 grain 30-30's are still just as dead! I do totally agree that a one shot,short track, humane kill is still paramout BUT I want to eat more than venison JELLO! Would you's be kind and explain why you think we need to pulverize whitetails pleeze! Bless U all and TY! Old John

A 250gr bullet that is 50cal is very very light for caliber yet a 250gr 30cal is very very heavy for caliber. You can not go by just weight alone. Sectional density is a key factor in how a bullet reacts when impacting anything. Just try to get a 250gr 50cal or even a 45cal bullet to have a good BC. Its not going to be easy. I could easily get there with a 40cal bullet though.

A heavier bullet will almost always have a better sectional density and getting a higher BC as well is also easier. So if i load up for ethical 200 yard shots a heavier bullet has a far better chance of holding together on a 25 yard shot. Pick your poison accordingly. Choose the bullet, weight, caliber and construction that best fits your predicted shot chances.

A 300gr cup and core bullet covers those bases fairly well for a large number of hunters. Plus its cheaper than the monolithic coppers such as Barnes. I shoot the little Barnes 225gr XPB most of the time in my 50cal just because it fits my needs extremely well. I like to shoot a 350gr lead conical about 1000fps slower in my 45cal. Both will accomplish virtually the same thing.

how you compare center fire to muzzle loader, most of these comments are from experience

I shot 9 deer with a 44 mag bullet. Two from my Whitelighting and 7 from my Ruger Redhawk. One shot over 100 yards all the others less than 60 yards. Most of these deer never took a step a being shoot. The bullets were 240 grain Nosler, I don't think you need a larger bullet to kill a deer.

Just my opinion.

WoodsGnome said:

Hello Gentlemen...I have a question please... From what Im reading...the consensess is that 300+ grain bullets are cat's butt! First I appreciate all your help and totally respect ALL of yours combined knowledge!! My question is...what on earth do U need 300+ grain bullets for average everyday whitetails under 200 pounds for pleeze?? ALL those deer for 100 yrs that were shot with 150-170 grain 30-30's are still just as dead! I do totally agree that a one shot,short track, humane kill is still paramout BUT I want to eat more than venison JELLO! Would you's be kind and explain why you think we need to pulverize whitetails pleeze! Bless U all and TY! Old John

Click to expand...

For a 100yd shot the 250gr or even a little less is adequate. The average ML with black powder or substitute velocity is below 2000 fps, more likely 1500-1700fps. Kinetic Energy (mass x velocity) falls sharply past 100yds. Sectional density, bullet design, bullet weight, velocity all factor in accuracy and performance of the projectile. If you study ballistics the heavier projectiles 300gr + have better kinetic energy and trajectory patterns past 100yds. At 250 + yards serious study and preparation are required for accuracy and lethality in a ML. Bullet coefficient and velocity is the key factor for long range accuracy. How the bullet reacts on impact is the key for lethality. If they explode/fragment or pass through without expansion a wounded animal not killed results. Even a modern CF rifle has considerable drop at extreme range. For average range 50yds-250yds in hunting in a ML the 300gr expanding bullet will work. For short range > 100yds 250gr or even less will work. I'm still hunting for the perfect ML bullet, a lot come close but well over $1.00 a bullet is expensive. XTP, SST, Speer, Parker, Barnes, Thor are a few considered. I choose to stay under 200yds and and a 300gr bullet. We must know our limitations.

It’s actually mass x velocity(SQUARED) = energy.

you shoot a 530 grain pure lead HP with 85 grains of 2ff black powder at 1300 fps you can take deer easily to 350 yards and kill clean. Don't understand why people have such hard time believing that. This would be in a .45 cal.
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What we want to believe about bullet behavior isn't always true. I hunt exclusively with Barnes bullets now using the 250 mz in 50 cal and 275mz in 54 cal. Compared to the 300 and 325 mz and pushed at near max velocity, the lighter two bullets have LESS drop at 300 yards than their heavier brothers. Is there less energy at all ranges? Yes, but but but, for pronghorn, coues, javalina or any number of smaller game dead is dead. Twenty or so of these critters are my huckleberry.

Oh, by the way three mule deer bucks have fallen to the 250 Barnes mz.

Bill

I'm a big believer in high Sectional Density (SD) of .270 plus for elk, and over .200 for deer. On a perfect broadside shot at 100 yds. or less, almost any bullet will work. For a shot that isn't perfect, a high SD will help with penetration and quick kills. Lower velocity also helps with penetration. I hate shooting at an animal and watching it run away. With a muzzleloader, I always wondered if I missed, or if the bullet just didn't exit. With a high SD, I know for sure. If there is no blood trail, it was a miss. I find I miss much less often now that I use high SD bullets. I hunt elk also, so I am shooting Remington 405 gr. .458 bullets in my .50. They are cheaper than muzzleloader bullets, and so far, perform much better. I ran out of the Remingtons last year, and used a 400 gr. hardcast lead bullet from Harvester. Penetrated from the front right shoulder to the left rear ham, and exited. I don't believe that would have happened with a lower SD bullet. Big bullets at low velocity don't kick too bad. Scopes with 4 crosshairs solve the trajectory issue.

I use to make my own 454 gr bullet of pure lead. However I'm find it easier to just use 44 mag with sabot. I no longer have any pistols and a lot of 44's and my eye sight sucks, so it's 100 yards or less with 240 gr Nosler bullets for my muzzleloaders. My biggest problem is what to due with the 100+ pounds of lead I'll still have. I can only use so many sinkers.