Optima V2 accuracy challenge

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Just read through this thread. Glad it had a positive outcome. I use to think CVA was junk, but boy how they’ve changed!
Gave my son a AccuraV2 that would flat out shoot
Then I got a a MR. Same thing. 44 green sabot/ 265 sst or Orange 458 sabot and 325 Sst.
I don’t need centerfires anymore,,,,,,,,,, but I still like em. lol
 
gle3105 said:
Just read through this thread. Glad it had a positive outcome. I use to think CVA was junk, but boy how they’ve changed!
Gave my son a AccuraV2 that would flat out shoot
Then I got a a MR. Same thing. 44 green sabot/ 265 sst or Orange 458 sabot and 325 Sst.
I don’t need centerfires anymore,,,,,,,,,, but I still like em. lol
Click to expand...



didnt know there was a 265/325 SST
 
With primitive weapons laws changed in Louisiana and Mississippi, muzzle loaders are a drug on the market. I've been seeing a lot of CVA's in 35 Whelan, 45-70, and other big calibers. It's a shame H&R went out of business.
 
I purchased a .45 cal Accura V2 LR with 30" barrel and 1:22 twist. I have not been pleased. It says it is designed for pellets, which I find expensive, restrictive on load development, and no faster to load than premeasured powder. So, I bought a BH 209 Breechplug (BHBP), and it shot 777 even worse. I finally bought another jug of overpriced BH 209, and still got 3" groups. When I got home, the breechplug clogged, and the only way to clear it was to drill it out with a straight pin. I spent a couple of hours cleaning my gun. I'm not impressed with BH 209. I am trying to shoot sabot less with a felt wad under, so I'm shooting the same bullets your .50s are. I like the Harvester Scorpion PT, and they shoot great in all my other rifles, but not so much in this one. I tried some Precision Rifle .40 cal. saboted bullets, and still no luck. I'll try tightening my forend screw, because it does seem that my groups are getting worse instead of better. I sized some .458 Remington bullets down to .451 and hammered one through the barrel. It got a lot tighter near the bottom. I'm wondering if my barrel is defective. I did remove the loose mounts and applied loctite. The guarantee said it would shoot more accurately than any muzzlelloader I've ever shot. Instead, it has been the worst. I'm about ready to send it back. Has anyone else had good luck with one like this?
 
I haven't heard of a single .45cal that doesn't shoot the Fury bullets accurately and with tight groups. Given everything else is correct.
The 209 primer and breech plug will need cleaning, its just the nature of the game with BH209 and OEM breech plugs. Others will chime in on the correct drill bit size, but after 8 or so shots, just turn it by hand in the breech plug where the primer goes. It'll chip out the carbon build up.
 
Western and CVA BH209 plugs require a 1/8 bit to clean the flash channel. The Lehigh CVA plug might be larger 5/32? Cleaning the flash channel with the correct size bit has been gone over time and time again. Its even listed on the BH209 website. CVA even sells a tool just for this purpose but im not sure its the right size for the BH209 plug.

Parker 275gr BE are the easiest bullets i gotten to shoot sabotless. They should be .451-.4515 right out of the box. I use .060 x .461 veggie fiber wads almost all the time for sabotless. They are cheap. These can make a huge difference in groups. Either Walters or Sagebrush brands but i can usually only find Walters Wads.

Buffalo Arms also sells poly wads and they are TIGHT. I have not tried them yet in mine for accuracy. They are cheap too.
 
I would like to try a DI plug myself over a LRMP module system but they can be a hassle to reload in the field. From just a performance standpoint its the best. No bushing or vent to wear out and really hot flame to the powder. Grade 9 steel modules will last a super long time. Very nice speed increase vs 209s also.

$122.50 plus shipping
image

 
Myself I have no experience with DI, but having a nut driver to tighten and then loosen would be a PITA. With both using LRMP's, I'd rather the module and just pop it out, vs having to use a nut driver twisting it in and out.
Breech plug problems suck...……..
 
treepotato said:
As a new muzzleloader, I'm not having much luck getting good accuracy from a new 50 cal CVA Optima V2 with nitride barrel (not Bergara finish polished, just the standard one). Starting to think not every new inline that gets shipped out is capable of 1 MOA accuracy.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Things tried so far:

- Removed scope (Nikon P3 muzzleloader 3-9x), rings, and base; degreased screws and holes, remounted all with blue locktite
- Firing without ramrod mounted
- Using bench rest with sand bags front/rear
- Only contact with gun on firing is cheek weld, firing hand, and consistent rear pressure into shoulder
- Using BH209 powder, cleaning the CVA Blackhorn BP with a drill bit every 3-6 shots (not during a group)
- Using CCI 209 mag primers (also tried Fed 209A), and O-rings from McMillan; zero blow back around primers
- Assortment of bullets tried: XTP 44 cal 300 gr; XTP 45 cal 240 gr; XTP 45 cal 300 gr; Barnes MZ Expanders 300 gr; Barnes T-EZ 290 gr; Hornady SST-ML 300 gr; and a pack of PowerBelts
- Lightly knurling the bullets by rolling between two files; also tried without knurling
- Using spire point bullet seating tip for those kinds of bullets
- Assortment of sabots from the ones that came pre-packed with bullets plus Harvester green and black crush ribs, and MMP HPH 12 and 24 black sabots
- Indexing sabots when loading to ensure each petal rides on 2 lands
- Letting barrel cool at least 5 min before reloading; most often waiting 8-10 min
- Applying as consistent loading pressure at end as I can
- Polished barrel with JB Bore Cleaner

I've used 3 cans of BH209 so far at a variety of charges (weighed), and haven't been able to get less than 1.5" inch 100 yard 3 shot groups. I don't think it's bench technique because I get cloverleafs with a .308 and .30-06 at 100 yards, and honestly the trigger on the CVA is better than my other rifles. The action locks up tight when closed, especially with a brand new O-ring.

I feel stumped. Thoughts on what else to try? Or do I just accept this gun is going to shoot about 2" groups and keep all hunting shots to within 100 yards?
Click to expand...

I recently did a test in my CVA Optima V2 ML using BH209 to shoot Hornady 250 gr SST low drag and CCI 209M primers. I previously had fair results with 100 gr of pellets. With loose powder I started with 80 gr volume of BH209 shooting at 50yds.
The weather was damp with a very light mist of rain. After a few shots I stopped to check the breech plug for fouling. I didn't notice anything unusual but run a cleaning stem into the flash channel with oil on it. Then continued shooting. Right away I began having hang fires. It may have been the oil or not. During the trail I had 5 hang fires in 14 shoots. But aside for the hang fires the results looked promising. To prevent any issues later I followed up by ordering a breech plug for better BH209 ignition.

Here are my results noting the two high bullet holes were from over correcting for initial low shots. The ballistics indicate if I hit at 1.7" at 50 yards I will be zero at 125 yards. The first line before the dotted line is the 1 3/4" line. There are 4 shots grouped in that spot.

20191028_130631.jpg
 
Far Sighted said:
I didn't notice anything unusual but run a cleaning stem into the flash channel with oil on it.
Click to expand...

Why would you introduce an oil into the flash channel? Its been said over and over to use a 1/8th" bit to clean the flash channel in CVA BH209 plugs. OEM plug is 3mm bit. Oil will just contaminate the carbon fouling and make it even worse.

Those SST sabots are probably a little too loose also. Try the Harvester smooth black sabot with those bullets. They are labeled Harvester EZ load sabots for 300gr bullets or less.
5481.jpg
 
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I know better now but I read oil based cleaner is recommended for cleaning up BH209 residue. So I learn by doing.
Why would I change sabots just because you said? I am using the ones that come packaged with Hornady bullets for now.
 
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Thanks! I am aware of bulk buys in sabots and bullets. I have been buying the pistol bullets for years but decided to try the SST because of the reviews.
So far the Hornady 250 gr SST Low Drag is beating the 44 and 45 cal 240 and 250 gr XTP bullets.
Actually I did a bulk buy on the Hornady SST low drag. I caught a special and got them last year winter late -- several packages 20 each.
Since you mentioned the "loose" fit of the red sabot that is one of the selling points of the SST Low Drag it is easy to load. Slides in like is has butter on it.
I have an older Optima Pro which has a smaller bore ID and it is tough to push some loads.

If you don't mine from your experience how do Optima V1 do with BH209? I didn't see any reviews on it so I wondered because my son has one and I also have the Optima Pro which has about the same breech plug. Thinking of trying them on BH 20. Thanks GM54-2120
 
treepotato said:
I tried the Harvester smooth short black and smooth green sabots yesterday with an assortment of XTP and Barnes bullets, using the same bench techniques, etc., although I did increase cooling time to 8 min before starting reloading since temps were in the low 60s rather than 30s. No noticeable change, 100 yard groups were 2.5 to 3 inches.

Best was 1.9 inch with 44 cal 300 gr XTP, Harvester smooth green sabot, and 70 wgr of BH209.

For comparison I fired 3 Barnes MZ 300 gr with the prepackaged HBH-12 sabots, could barely stuff them past the crown, and got a 4.5 inch group.

On barrel consistency and loading tightness... how much difference should there be in effort to push a sabot past the crown vs the rest of the barrel? Once past the first 5-6 inches in this gun it becomes much easier to load.
Click to expand...
Right there could be the issue in your last sentance . Never could get one to group really well witb a sabot with my barrel like that . This has been my experiance . MIGHT have a good conical shooter though.
How about that , i was right AND CVA gave you a new gun !!! Never read what happend yet till i read on deeper in this discussion . Non parallel bores never REALLY shoot !!! Angers me that they ship them anyway !!! Who made what dont matter , its whats inside that counts ......
 
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Be careful with the sabots that slide in like butter. There ok to shoot off a bench , but in a hunting situation they can slide forward and cause extreme high pressures. I don't have the Optima but I do have the Accura. My rifle likes the Black crush ribs over the smooth, but every gun is different. I have never had a hang fire using the proper breech plug with B209 powder.
 
Far Sighted said:
If you don't mine from your experience how do Optima V1 do with BH209? I didn't see any reviews on it so I wondered because my son has one and I also have the Optima Pro which has about the same breech plug. Thinking of trying them on BH 20. Thanks GM54-2120
Click to expand...

Earlier non-QRBP plugs needed a little work to be a really good plug. Ron modded some and they were great after being modified. Unmodified they are mediocre at best. If the head space is tight (seals the primer well) and you keep the 3mm flash channel clean they work to some extent. Increase the flash channel to 5/32 with a vent liner installed and they go bang every single time. Been there and done that in a 2009 model Accura 45.
 

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