Fouling question

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I started sighting in my in lines with a clean barrel and hunting with a clean barrel a few years back. It was due to the concern of corrosion during the hunting season and not having to clean my gun every couple of days. It is easy to sight in a clean barrel with an in line at the range. Remove plug, clean barrel, load, shoot, rinse and repeat sorta speak. How ever with a sidelock you don't have the plug removal luxury. I for one see a big difference where my clean barrel hits the target vs a fouled barrel. Just wondering who hunts with a clean barrel sidelock and what your technique is for sighting in at the range.
 
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I fire the first shot from a cold, clean barrel. If an adjustment must be made, I do so and clean my gun as I would at home. Then repeat. Once that first shot is sighted in, I then shoot the follow up shot to check if there is much, or any difference. There usually is, but only 2-3”. So that is more than adequate as a follow up if required. I sight in to zero at 75 yards, putting me about 4” low at 100 yards. My sidelocks only have traditional sights, so farther shots don’t happen.
Walk
 
I use a Magspark 209, With a Clean Bore that i am preparing to Hunt i Point the Barrel Down and pop 2 or 3 Federal 209A Shotgun Primers Strait Through the CLEAN Bore, Then push a Patched Jag all the way down til it Stops at The Breech end, Pop 1 more Fed 209A Off against that Patched Jag, this Creates Back pressure, the 209 Will push the Cleaning Rod out a Ways, Remove the Cleaning Rod, The Patch will be BLACK, VERY BLACK from the 209 Shotgun Primers, 209s are Non Corrosive, This procedure Simulates/Mimics a Fouled Bore. Now Load your Rifle and Hunt with Confidence :lewis: I have tested this MANY times, with Several Rifles, The Cold Clean Bore Shot will Shoot Dead on.

The Downside is these Magsparks are Spendy for just this Purpose, But will likely last a Lifetime :)
https://warrencustomoutdoor.com/mag-spark.html
 
I will see about ordering one of those Mag Sparks for my Renegade in the off season and give it a try. Sounds like a great idea you came up with Lewis.
For now I will keep my SOP and squib shoot a load of 30 gr of Swiss under two compressed cleaning patches before I load up and go huntin'.
 
I clean between shot on my Renegade while at the range. Usually a wet patch or two followed by 2 dry patches cleans it almost spotless. Pop a #10 Remington cap or two and load my 75 grains (volume) 777 and a saboted 270 .429 Gold Dot or 300 .430 XTP. I am right about 2" high at 50 yards and back down to zero at 100 yards.

I don't worry about cleaning the radiused breech while at the range, but clean it with a breech scraper and wet and dry patches when I get home. I store the barrel caked full of T/C Bore Butter in the off season and have to clean and fire a few times to clean it out good to prep for season.

I did find out (by testing at the range) that I can get off a dirty follow up shot that is dead on the money and a second follow up that is off by about 2" at 100. Then it becomes a bear to load with all the fouling.


For what it's worth, I never remove or clean the removable breech plugs while at the range either.
 
I clean between shot on my Renegade while at the range. Usually a wet patch or two followed by 2 dry patches cleans it almost spotless. Pop a #10 Remington cap or two and load my 75 grains (volume) 777 and a saboted 270 .429 Gold Dot or 300 .430 XTP. I am right about 2" high at 50 yards and back down to zero at 100 yards.

I don't worry about cleaning the radiused breech while at the range, but clean it with a breech scraper and wet and dry patches when I get home. I store the barrel caked full of T/C Bore Butter in the off season and have to clean and fire a few times to clean it out good to prep for season.

I did find out (by testing at the range) that I can get off a dirty follow up shot that is dead on the money and a second follow up that is off by about 2" at 100. Then it becomes a bear to load with all the fouling.


For what it's worth, I never remove or clean the removable breech plugs while at the range either.


Bore butter “seasoning” is one of those things that never made any sense to me? And something i chose NOT to do. After each Shooting session My Sidelock Muzzleloaders get Thoroughly Cleaned, And Dried BONE DRY, Then Coated with a Good Quality Gun Oil to Protect/Preserve the Bare Steel. I have read MANY Horror stories about Bore Butter. Seasoning a Rifle Bore like a Frying Pan has NEVER made any sense to me either? And is something i would NEVER attempt to do. I want my Lands, and Grooves COMPLETELY Clean of Gunk Buildup.

Removable Breech plugs? Unless you brought along some SERIOUS Tools to the Range with ya, Sidelock Muzzleloaders Don’t have Easily Removable Breech plugs, and Something VERY Few do

Rice Barrels Barrel Clamp Set for Vise
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Breech Plug Tool for a 1” TC Renegade/Hawken
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Rfd (Rob) Removing a Lyman Great Plains Breech Plug
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Breech Plug Removed.
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Don't know about seasoning (although it was touted as edible), but I preferred it to oil for rust protection since the oil would just run to my breech.

Don't see anyone mentioning removing sidelock breech plugs in this thread.
 
I store the barrel caked full of T/C Bore Butter in the off season and have to clean and fire a few times to clean it out good to prep for season....
"I preferred it to oil for rust protection since the oil would just run to my breech."

I'd think taking the gun out of the cabinet or safe five or six times during the off season and running a oil-damp patch down the barrel would be preferable to stuffing the barrel full of the bore butter. I can't imagine trying to clean that gunk out of a sidelock barrel as you describe.

When I finish cleaning my guns after either shooting at the range or hunting I stand them in a closet for a couple days with their muzzles resting in a few sheets of folded paper toweling placed on an aluminum pie plate. Any excess oils simply get caught in the toweling. I give the muzzle end a good wipe before storing them right side up.

Maybe its just me but I enjoy handling the guns just because I have them and I shoot them a lot during the off season just to stay in tune with them so they get fairly regular cleanings. I always give the outside surfaces a good rub down after handling before they go back into hiding and that also included an oil-damp patch down the pipe. Still, I can't imagine the mess of trying to rout a barrel full of bore butter out of any gun, sidelock or inline. And so you know, any pocket of air in that mess that makes contact along the metal surfaces can develop moisture and the pitting can go rampant since you cannot see it happening. Bores need to breath. I store all of my inlines with the breach plugs out of the barrels so air flow is assured.
 
Here is an Old Bore Butter thread here back in 07, These threads are ALL over the entire WWW, There is more NEGATIVE on Bore Butter than all of us Combined have the time to Read

https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/bore-butter.5636/

Bore Butter is the FARTHEST thing from what I would use to Protect my Guns. That being said, There is NO doubt it would work, as long as you knew for ABSOLUTE sure you have the bore METICULOUSLY Clean, and you knew for ABSOLUTE sure the Bore WAS BONE DRY BEFORE you Added it, While these things sound SUPER EASY and Straight forward (and they ARE for us Seasoned Guy’s) But FACT is This can be TOUGH with Sidelock Muzzleloaders Since you can NOT easily look in and Inspect them, Especially New Guy’s just getting in the Hobby/Sport. If by chance you didn’t get the Bore THOROUGHLY Clean, and there is even the SLIGHTEST hint of Moisture left behind, Think about what you are doing when you Slather your Rifles Bore with TC Bore Butter? You just “SEALED” Your Bores Fate!! Rust, and Pitting are ABSOLUTE SURE to Follow! As you go on with Everyday life, Your Muzzleloader is Propped up in Your Closet Etc. ROTTING AWAY

Not to mention dealing with getting that Junk out of the Bore before Shooting, Bore Butter is HARD as a Brick in Cold weather, and RUNNY as Water in Warm weather. The best place I found for it was the Garbage :lewis: It Simply Can NOT Compete with a Quality Gun Oil to Protect/Preserve your Muzzleloading Rifles
 
I don't see anything about sidelock breech plug in that quote. Just about the removable breech plugs that HJ had referenced.

Ok, i see what you were referring to :lewis: inline plugs from HJ’s Original Post. All Good!
 
Ended up ordering one of those Mag Sparks you recommended to foul my barrel. Price wasn't too hurtful. Should be at my door from Fed Ex some time today.

They work DARN GOOD, When you Touch off a HOT 209 Through a Sidelock, with Magspark, you get more of a DEEP HOLLOW BOOOOOMPH Sound. They BLOW OUT Any Possible oil Residue, and Dry the Snail, Fire Channel/Patented Breech, Where you Simply cannot reach with ANYTHING. Plus they leave a Black Soot Coated Throughout, This Allows a Fresh Powder Charge to Flow Smoothly Through the Patented Breech, Fire Channel, and Settle under the Nipple. After dumping the Powder Charge in, I hold my Rifle Barrel UP (OBVIOUSLY ;)) And “TAP TAP TAP” on the Buttstock, This helps Settle the Powder Really Good in the Snail, Under the Nipple. She will go BANG Immediately :lewis:

If you have access to Different Brands of Shotgun primers, I would Personally get the Federal 209As, they are HOT!
 
Yep, got plenty of the 209A's.
I pretty much use the same procedure to foul and clear the breech with my inlines before loading at the bench or to go hunting. I will shoot 2 primers in a row. After that I stuff 2 cleaning patches down the bore and shoot them out. Do you think this procedure would work well enough to foul my Renegade?
 
I guess I'm lucky with my Renegade. My clean bore shot hits dead on at 50 yards and then shots after that are on at 75. I just remember that I'm hunting with a 50 yard zero and hold accordingly at different distances.
 
Would Musket Caps on a Renegade work just as well?

Musket Caps would be fine, But in my experience there isn’t anything to Gain with them on a Sidelock? But if one chooses to use them, The MAIN thing to Remember with Musket Caps And Sidelock Muzzleloaders is Hammer alignment, The Hammer needs to line up PERFECTLY in order for the Hammer Cup to Go Directly over the Musket Cap and hit it Squarely. If the hammer is SLIGHTLY off, Which is VERY VERY COMMON with Sidelocks! You would need to Correct it in order to use Musket Caps reliably. Depending on how bad off the Hammer is? You might need to Heat the Hammer with an Acetylene Torch and Bend it (Hammer Removed from the Lock/Rifle FIRST Obviously :)) I have bent Several Hammers this way. You can Get away with a LOT More Hammer/Nipple Misalignment with the Smaller No. 11 Percussion Caps and be 100% Fine :lewis: But NOT so with Musket Caps

Here is my Take on Musket Caps, Other than being REALLY NICE to handle, I see ABSOLUTELY no other Benefit in them? I think they are GREAT in Plunger Style Inlines Due to the EASE of Handling the Musket Caps Compared to the Tiny No. 11s, I have 100 of the HOT RWS Musket Caps here, i have used them, and DEFINITELY liked the EASE of Handling part, But when i Tested them Side by side against RWS 1075 Plus No. 11 Caps, and CCi Magnum No. 11s, I can’t tell ANY Difference, if anything I would give the Edge to the Smaller RWS 1075 Plus No. 11s, I found NO Difference in Performance (Your Mileage may Vary?) For me, the Switch to Musket Caps just wasn’t worth it, and is why i have stayed with the No. 11 Caps. I even use the Regular No. 11 CCi Caps (NON Magnum Version) i have NEVER had a FTF (Fail to Fire) With the Plain No. 11s, I get INSTANT, Centerfire Type ignition, I use Swiss Real Blackpowder, No doubt that helps a BUNCH ;)
 
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