Barrel twist guestions

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wildcat2

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Hi have not been here in awhile, but am doing a new build this winter,of a English style interchangeable barrels sporting rifle , one of the three barrels is going to be a fast twist 45cal ,4140 steel 1 to 18 twist ,is this to fast of a twist to shoot some bare copper plated or solid copper. My long range Alexander Henry build I did is a 18 twist so I whanted to use some of my longer conical bullets in this as well. Or should I go with a different twist. I might add the other barrels are a 50 caliber 1to 28 and a Colerain turkey choke barrel . Thanks .
 
Maybe some of you might ask ,why have I not trye'd these type of bullets in my alexander henry ,fast twist ? Well answer is I have had ongoing lock issue with this gun. And will not get the lock back until later this week.plus I did not whant to take the risk of getting a bare copper bullet stuck in the barrel and have to unbreech it. Pretty simple strait forward guestion ,can jacket or solid copper bullets work in that fast of a twist?
 
Depends on how Big the Conical Bullets you plan to Shoot are? If they are the longer 530-540 Grain Bullets that come in around 1.4” or there REALLY Close abouts, The 1:18 Twist would NO DOUBT be what i would Do. Even a 1:17 Twist, Such as Dave Gullo just Won a World Championship With (His bullet is 1.5”)

If Lighter, Shorter Bullets are your intentions, Say 425-450 Grains, and 1.2” Long or there really close abouts, I would go with a 1:20 Twist.
 
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I really doubt that a solid copper bullet will shoot well in any muzzleloader regardless of the rifling twist unless some sort of patch is used or the bullet is pre-rifled to match the bore and rifling grooves.

In order to load a muzzleloading rifle, the bullet must be smaller than the bore. That makes it much smaller than the rifling grooves.
While a soft lead will bump up in diameter when the gun is fired, I think it is unlikely that a solid copper slug will grow in diameter. If the bullet doesn't bump up in size, there is no way it can lock into the rifling grooves so in effect, you will be shooting a smoothbore with a solid copper bullet. Needless to say, if the bullet doesn't get any spin on it, it will be very unstable and it will tumble or "keyhole".
Paper patching might work with a copper bullet, depending on the depth of the grooves but I think the only bullets that can really be successfully fired in a muzzleloader will need to be soft lead or use a sabot to be work.

Copper plating might work with a soft lead bullet but I can't see that it would provide any benefit. It wouldn't meet any "non-lead" requirement a state may have and if anything, the copper plating would just rub off and contaminate the bore.
 
OK thanks I thought I was reading where some guys were doing this. I do use pp in my long range target hennry. They work well. When the barrel is made I have the option of groove depth. The 50 and turkey choke one are all ready here and are 1 inch octagon. The 4140 45cal will be the same . I will just probably go with 18 twist and use some of my 530 gr conical,and some 450 gr mold gg molds I have. If it shoots well maybe it will go to Oakridge match in march. Case closed.
 
I think they will work. Even a copper bullet will obturate at least a lil. Not like lead but some. Sized right it will grab rifling. Sealed with a wad. Annealed so its softer. You should try it and see how well it works
 
Lehigh sells machined copper bullets with REAL type bands. They are made just for sabotless shooting. If you want to shoot sabots also i would go with a 1-20 or 1-22. If its all sabotless/conical there is no reason not to use 1-20 or 1-18. Over around 490gr the 1-18 is a better choice.
 
OK thanks I thought I was reading where some guys were doing this. I do use pp in my long range target hennry. They work well. When the barrel is made I have the option of groove depth. The 50 and turkey choke one are all ready here and are 1 inch octagon. The 4140 45cal will be the same . I will just probably go with 18 twist and use some of my 530 gr conical,and some 450 gr mold gg molds I have. If it shoots well maybe it will go to Oakridge match in march. Case closed.

I shoot LOTS of Various Jacketed Bullets in my Sidelock Muzzleloaders with STELLAR Results (My YouTube Channel has LOTS of me Doing it :lewis:) But NO Full Copper Bullets, If i were to try it, i would want them REALLY tight, I HIGHLY doubt they will Obturate Much, if Any? At the low pressures these Muzzleloaders Generate. Jacketed on the other Hand is no problem, Many of them have have worked VERY Well for me.

Such as these Speer Deep Curls. Though these are .50 Cal, Just showing they Work. These are .500 out of the Box, And i shot them in my .501 Bore, they Obviously went down with ZERO resistance, by my Results here it’s Quite Obvious they “BUMPED UP” VERY Well (Obturated)


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AWESOME BULLET PERFORMANCE! These are Durable and hold together extremely well
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I’d build a .577 sporting rifle since you already have a 45.
 
My 45 alexander henry build is strictly my target , this gun will be my hunting gun. All barrels for this have to be 1 inch octagon, to interchange. Would 577 have enough wall thickness?
 
Would these 500 curls work in the 50 cal 1to 28 twist? Thanks for the reply .

They sure did good in my 1:28 Twist above, I don’t have a pic of the Target, Only the Video above, You can see them perform in it :lewis: i need to get out with these again and get some Distance
 
Yes thanks for your feedback and all your time you devote to this site. I just got some 45 cal 300 gr to use in a sabot in the 50 barrel , but I don't think I can do the bare 500 curls in this barrel for I think it is a hair over 501. Maybe if I knurled them up or two wraps of onion skin.
 
Yes thanks for your feedback and all your time you devote to this site. I just got some 45 cal 300 gr to use in a sabot in the 50 barrel , but I don't think I can do the bare 500 curls in this barrel for I think it is a hair over 501. Maybe if I knurled them up or two wraps of onion skin.

I bet you can get them to Fit :lewis:

I remember you talking about where to find good bullets quite awhile back? Do you plan to compete any coming up? Do you Shoot Paper Patch, GG, or Both? What Twist Rate, etc?

I have a few different Custom bullet molds, I would be glad to help you out with Some High QUALITY Bullets, I have written all through this Forum about the importance of SHARP Bullets, especially the Bases.

Here are a A few i pour, These are my Lighter Weights. I make these in the Longer/Heavier 530 Grain PP and 540 Grain GG as well. This is one my Favorite Paper Patch Bullets, This is a Custom Mold i came up with, BACO Cut it for Me, I have Shot this Bullet to 825 Yards. NOTE THE BASES ;)
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And this one, Also a Custom BACO, 1 of a Kind Mold
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Yes ,I just got my lock back yesterday for my alexander henry target gun.going to go to Oakridge this march.and was at freindship last September and would of loved to shoot at them rams.but that is where I gave my lock back to Rod the maker to get the trigger pull right. My barrel on that is a 4140 450,458 18 twist in it. It it a green Mountain barrel. Yes I do shoot pp,and gg. Did not get any pp workout do to this ongoing lock issue I had. I love the English style guns. And this interchangeable barrel gun will be a rigby style. Those are some nice looking bullets Lewis , will take all the help I can get. My plan was to travel around to shoots and shoot my English muzzleloaders . I even made a commitment this year that all my game I harvest will only be with the muzzleloader I make. My goal is to take a black bear here in pa. In there new muzzleloader season they started for the. I got the tree lead tester last year. And will by a crony. To to complete testing including penetration testing like ron does. Thanks
 
Yes I forgot to add ,that at my first Oakridge, the shooter that won overall was on my sguad and he looked at my bullets and said they were junk and he was looking at the base. He also said in a stern way stop using goex. Yes when I get bullets that work for me and the gun I then will invest in moulds, that word class shooter also told me not to shoot anything under 550 gr at the 1000 yards . Thanks again.
 
My 45 alexander henry build is strictly my target , this gun will be my hunting gun. All barrels for this have to be 1 inch octagon, to interchange. Would 577 have enough wall thickness?
Yes, the larger bores spread the surface area and create less pressure in a given/same load.
I have an original British Sporting Rifle that is 1” across the breach flats, original.577 (Roundball I presume, as it’s been lined) it’s about 85% the size of your AH.
My 12b shoots a 850gr bullet over 75gr Swiss (I’ve shot 120gr, just because) and the bbl is 1.2” (0.235” wall). A .577” in a 1” is 0.215” wall - if you are going to shoot a 500gr bullet over 70-90gr, I don’t see a problem using 4140.
 
Yes I forgot to add ,that at my first Oakridge, the shooter that won overall was on my sguad and he looked at my bullets and said they were junk and he was looking at the base. He also said in a stern way stop using goex. Yes when I get bullets that work for me and the gun I then will invest in moulds, that word class shooter also told me not to shoot anything under 550 gr at the 1000 yards . Thanks again.
AHH the New Zealand fellow
 
No ,I thought it was Hoppy. I am glad Rick had me on their squad. They were all top shooters and could tolerate my newbie presence. The fellow from new Zealand really made me smile with his laying on his back style of shooting. Got some brain picking for you 45. Also.
 
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