The White that never was……

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The NE have seemed harder than that to me just from handling and loading them. I cannot say for sure because I donut have a tester other than my fingernail.
 
The NE have seemed harder than that to me just from handling and loading them. I cannot say for sure because I donut have a tester other than my fingernail.
I thought so too but thats what he claims . Personnally i got tired of all that and decided to do the pp/knurl route . Glad i did . I dont have ANY casting equipment and yet needed a relieable pure lead bullet that i could make a perfect fit by being tuneable in size . The original powerpunch bullets i found fit best for accuracy when a cross of teflon tape was put on top of the muzzle then loading the bullet and tape in one step after a wad , especially on a clean bore . I like that too . Bullet stays put on powder as well . Much better than a fouling shot i found out .
 
Your crossing up 410 and 451 info on bullets . A 410gr .410 bullet is available from No Excuses bullets . They also have 460gr 451 bullets .
Bullet sellers tell you the composition of the lead they are using. If not dont buy them !!! Pp started the begining of a sentence and still means" paper patch " . The forum section " bullet casting" is found when you touch the word "forums" at the top area of modern muzzleloading header . Scroll down till you see "bullet casting" and click on it . Look around . I believe it was under "bh209 lube" . Its currently on page 2 .
The 410's max charge is 100gr of black or subs.
The 451 is 120gr of black or subs
The 504 is 150gr of black or subs
ALL LOADS COME FROM THESE LIMITS
Most guys find 70 to 80gr a good load for T7 in ALL calibers of Whites . Experiment !!!!! No one can say which bullet or load of powder will be best in YOUR rifle without testing .
Doc , the inventor , is right..........BLACKHORN CAN BE USED IN A PLUNGER GUN !!!!! Non -- believers please read this 1000 times !!!!!
It does require a small amount of easily ingniteable powder to be used in a #11 or musket system however for successful ignition of the main load of blackhorn . This is called a duplex load . And Doc does it too !!!
Greg the rest you are going to have to just do it . Time spent shooting them is invaluable . Confidence and know -- how starts with that getting familiar phase . Putting what youve studied , carefully read , researched into action and use . Youll be fine !!! Just do it !!!

Just remember, these White rifles were designed well before BH. Although Doc says you can shoot BH out of a stock White, it's probably not a good idea. Any kind of blowback with BH can and will erode/gas cut breech plugs/ barrel/breech plug threads. Been there, done that. Without a highly modified breech plug/sealed ignition system BH would be off my list of powders for my stock Whites.
 
Just remember, these White rifles were designed well before BH. Although Doc says you can shoot BH out of a stock White, it's probably not a good idea. Any kind of blowback with BH can and will erode/gas cut breech plugs/ barrel/breech plug threads. Been there, done that. Without a highly modified breech plug/sealed ignition system BH would be off my list of powders for my stock Whites.
Happy New Year fishawk2700 !!! Yea you are right considering all the factors involved . I know i pushed the limits hard with my 410 using a different custom bp that was lapped in bp to barrel , permatex thread sealant on those threads , a 410 shotgun wad as a sabot with a .388 bullet , and a magspark sr ignition with a leihigh ventliner too but i covered the bases pretty well . Best i could anyhow . I dont think that these guys will do that hot of loading though . Doc surely didnt recomend a hot load at all , just a clean one . Enter at your own risk does apply though......
 
Happy New Year fishawk2700 !!! Yea you are right considering all the factors involved . I know i pushed the limits hard with my 410 using a different custom bp that was lapped in bp to barrel , permatex thread sealant on those threads , a 410 shotgun wad as a sabot with a .388 bullet , and a magspark sr ignition with a leihigh ventliner too but i covered the bases pretty well . Best i could anyhow . I dont think that these guys will do that hot of loading though . Doc surely didnt recomend a hot load at all , just a clean one . Enter at your own risk does apply though......
Actually anything in a White that kicks pretty hard you better bed it too , pillars included . Truthfully they ALL need it so they wont self destruct themselves . Slop = breakage eventually . Even with milder loads with big lead .
 
I will likely try BH209 & T73F. Both worked well in my 98 .451, but I’m not looking for speed. I’m looking for accuracy over anything else. Also as we all know, big lead does not need a lot of velocity to work.
I do hate duplexing but accuracy will make that decision for me

Greg
 
40s are legal here for deer also. Its the final addition i want for my collection but i want to shoot conicals and sabotless jacketed. Always wondered what actual 40cal barrels Doc used. Such as was it a 416Rem CF dimension barrel?

1-16 for a 416 blank is not very common.

how’s it was re-reading this I realize that I have not checked the twist rate of my 410. Are they 1-16?
My McGowen 40 smokeless is 1-14

Greg
 
I will likely try BH209 & T73F. Both worked well in my 98 .451, but I’m not looking for speed. I’m looking for accuracy over anything else. Also as we all know, big lead does not need a lot of velocity to work.
I do hate duplexing but accuracy will make that decision for me

Greg
Bullet to bore along with lube i found to be the biggest factors for accuracy . Wool wad too on a flat base bullet .
 
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Bullet to bore along with lube i found to be the biggest factors for accuracy . Wool wad too on a flat base bullet .

Thinking that I might have Dennis at Fury Bullets make a full bore bully for me....if he’s willing

Greg
 
Thinking that I might have Dennis at Fury Bullets make a full bore bully for me....if he’s willing

Greg
Im not sure it will obturate at plunger gun pressures . 100 gr is a max load for the 410 according to doc . The jacket is the issue i think . Lead works .
 
Im not sure it will obturate at plunger gun pressures . 100 gr is a max load for the 410 according to doc . The jacket is the issue i think . Lead works .

The Fury Star will work fine with even at 90 grains. I’ve had him make Bullets longer stretching & thinning the jacket at the same time.
Distance is the key to that plus it’s always fun to play at the range

Greg
 
The Fury Star will work fine with even at 90 grains. I’ve had him make Bullets longer stretching & thinning the jacket at the same time.
Distance is the key to that plus it’s always fun to play at the range

Greg
Wow !!!! You start with a 45 ??
 
Wow !!!! You start with a 45 ??
No I’ll talk to Dennis & see if he can actually build a bullet for me to match the bore diameter, prolly add a little knurling & a wad & see what she does.
We did this with my 1-20 45 cal & came up with a very nice shooting, fairly long 275gr bullet
He’s been very accommodating when it comes to special Bullets, but it does take time.
I will however push some big lead too

Greg
 
No I’ll talk to Dennis & see if he can actually build a bullet for me to match the bore diameter, prolly add a little knurling & a wad & see what she does.
We did this with my 1-20 45 cal & came up with a very nice shooting, fairly long 275gr bullet
He’s been very accommodating when it comes to special Bullets, but it does take time.
I will however push some big lead too

Greg
Very cool !!!!
 
If he’s willing then I will definitely post pics

Greg
Doc made 280gr plimking bullets , 320gr deer sized game , as well as 400gr everything including elk bullets for the 410 . Just in case you wanted to know . Tbe 400's waz what he shot silloette with too . :lewis:
 
Doc made 280gr plimking bullets , 320gr deer sized game , as well as 400gr everything including elk bullets for the 410 . Just in case you wanted to know . Tbe 400's waz what he shot silloette with too . :lewis:

Yes I know. I talked to him. I would love some 320’s & 400’s but there aren’t anymore

The 400 was Doc’s recommended bullet

Greg
 
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