777 ffg vs BH209

#11 do reduce it a great deal. Another thing that might is a small pistol primer ignition system although im not sure how "cool" those primers would really be. Like Sabotloader mentioned...MX Bore Conditioner and avoiding oils with Teflon also helps. The difference was quite a bit better in my old Thunderhawk after switching although i dont think it really conditions anything. Its just a more compatible oil for the application. Ballistol would probably accomplish the same thing since both use the same oil.

If you are using typical petroleum based oils just take plenty of extra time to swab it all out before firing. A little brake clean or 91%+ ISO on a patch will get rid of most oil in the bore. Pop a couple primers and run a dry patch to get anything that might still be in there. Starting with a lube free bore removes any chance your storage lube is causing even part of the issue.

Militec 1 is used in the bores of my rifles. Before loading the bore gets a shot of Break Free Powder Blast followed by dry patches. The bore is squeaky clean.

I like T7 loose. Loose because Ive been a hand loader for modern rifle for 35 years. I like to be able to control my powder charge because I know I can vary the charge to improve my guns group. T7 is also less expensive. I dont consider myself tight but I do like to be thrifty. If the T7 didnt work Id change projectiles and powder charges until I did find an accurate load.

After Ron shot my samples of GT bullets with 80 grains and got devastating results I took my Wolf out yesterday and tried 80 grains of loose T7. This is at 65 yards. I can only shoot 120 yards where I hunt.
The top group is 100 grains of loose and the bottom 80 grains. T7 works for me. Loose is better cause now I shoot cheaper yet. This is plenty good for me.

Snapback
Really good looking groups you shot there. I to like 777 and don't mind swabbing in between shots. But I like the BH209 also but not the cost of it per 10oz. Compared to 16oz of the T7 powder.

I dont mind the swab in between either. I slobber on a patch and run it down. I feel the crud ring but after a few strokes its gone. I do take the time to run a dry patch after the wet one. These are perfectly good groups for killing deer at the maximum 120 yards I hunt. I do understand the fellows who seek perfection. Im the same for hunting ground hogs. Shots can be out to 300 yards here. For my .243 Winchester I like to have dime sized groups at 100 yds. Also there is the pleasure of mastering what the gun can do.

knightnut2000 said:

Snapback
Really good looking groups you shot there. I to like 777 and don't mind swabbing in between shots. But I like the BH209 also but not the cost of it per 10oz. Compared to 16oz of the T7 powder.

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I feel we are being price gouged badly for bhorn . T7 isnt a give away but at least you get a pound . Bhorn NEEDS to be challenged........

Sideshow said:

I feel we are being price gouged badly for bhorn . T7 isnt a give away but at least you get a pound . Bhorn NEEDS to be challenged........

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The reason for the gouging, lies with all the middle men. Then the retailers also have to make a living, so the price increases even more. When I was shooting T7M pellets, prices ranged anywhere from $26 to over $30 retail. I was shooting CASES of it and had to find cheaper prices. Once I found a distributor 1st in line who would sell directly to me, they suddenly dropped to $15 a box.
Manufacturer get their share, warehouse gets their share, distributor gets their share and the retailer gets their share.

ENCORE50A said:

The reason for the gouging, lies with all the middle men. Then the retailers also have to make a living, so the price increases even more. When I was shooting T7M pellets, prices ranged anywhere from $26 to over $30 retail. I was shooting CASES of it and had to find cheaper prices. Once I found a distributor 1st in line who would sell directly to me, they suddenly dropped to $15 a box.
Manufacturer get their share, warehouse gets their share, distributor gets their share and the retailer gets their share.

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I know encore but it seems they sure are proud of it !!! On much we use its pricey these days . And bhorn does need to be challenged or even surpassed .

I also watch auctions for powder and pick up several pounds here and there for about 1/2 price. I also shoot the GT bullets for $.17ea. with a MMP sabot $.16ea.. With my auction bought powder I have about $.60 a shot into it. My Wolf is an inexpensive gun but satisfactory for my needs. The targets shot in post #43 above were shot with the components stated here. If you don't want to pay the B209 money get some loose T7 and try different powder/bullet combination until you find one that shoots to your satisfaction.

Sideshow said:

I know encore but it seems they sure are proud of it !!! On much we use its pricey these days . And bhorn does need to be challenged or even surpassed .

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Well I guess we could take up knitting

If one is just a casual shooter, yup, prices seem high, but for a dozen or two rounds its not that bad. If one shoots a lot the only way is to buy in bulk, where sometimes you can get a slight savings.
I saved 50%+ on propellants over retail prices, lucky I guess. Bullets? When Midway sells blems, JUMP ON THEM, even if its not your bullet of choice for hunting.
Looking for deals can save a lot of money, even if over time. Even though my wife thinks, that I think money grows on trees, one just has to be vigilant looking for the best prices.
And yes...……… there's just some things we can't save on.

Not sure what hasmat fees are lately but my last 5 lb jug of blackhorn was right at $250. delivered . If you drop the fee off and divide 5 full lbs into what's left its really not that bad.

MSalyards said:

Not sure what hasmat fees are lately but my last 5 lb jug of blackhorn was right at $250. delivered . If you drop the fee off and divide 5 full lbs into what's left its really not that bad.

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The bulk is the way to go if you shoot alot. Including hazmat cost that still saves you about $150 vs paying retail for the small jugs, at least in my area where small jugs will run about $50 after tax is included.

I would love to try Swiss 2f but no one around here sells real BP and if I bought it on line then there is the 20 - 25 dollar hazmat so not worth it to me and once my BH is gone I will go back to Pyro Select or T7 and no more high dollar 10 OZ. OF BH209

I starting hunting with muzzle loaders in 2000 and over the years since I have tried all the black powder substitutes, except White Hot sticks, in pellets and loose form. Simply said, I would not be shooting muzzle loaders for all my hunting today if BH209 hadn't come along. Taking into consideration what all of us spend hunting, target shooting etc the extra cost of BH is a minute part of our annual expenses. No need to repeat all the benefits of using BH209. I do take exception twith the gentleman who said his cleanup time is greater with BH than other substitutes. My experience is exactly the opposite, plus I can use regular gun cleaning supplies.

pooldoc said:

............ I do take exception twith the gentleman who said his cleanup time is greater with BH than other substitutes. My experience is exactly the opposite, plus I can use regular gun cleaning supplies.

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Is this the post you're referring to?

ENCORE50A said:

Depending on the range you plan to shoot/hunt, T7 and BH are both good propellants. T7 creates a crud ring and you need to swab between rounds, where with BH, most don't swab at all.
However for me...….. I can clean a rifle that has been shot with T7M pellets in 1/2 the time of cleaning with BH.

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If so.....I'll agree with the use of regular cleaning fluids when shooting BH209.

However, I still stand by my original statement of cleaning T7 in my rifle is much faster and I'll use less patches than any rifle I've owned shooting BH209.
What wasn't pointed out in my original statement, was that the rifle was a UF and not a "normal" production rifle. I should apologize for not being specific about the rifle.
I can take my time cleaning that rifle, use no more than 6 patches and be done in less than 7 minutes. Spotless clean. All while making a completely amateur video.

I started with Goex FF for my sidelock. The got an inline so I could use a scope. Found out about 777 and loved it. Shot great and not to bad to clean with soap and water. Then came Blackhorn, didn't really work for my magbolt even with mods, had misfires. Bought another rifle just for Blackhorn. TC Impact, out of the box Blackhorn ready $189 shipped.
I took a chance and just cleaned yesterday, last shot 12/19/19 after being loaded and 3 fouling shots 12/14/19.
Yea, I took a big chance but I had to verify all I'd read.
Easiest rifle I've ever cleaned, 2 dry patches very dirty then used 2 patches wet with Hoppes Elite. 2'nd wet almost clean, Then 2 dry patches last came out clean.
Expensive but this stuffs for real and my inline rifles will only see Blackhorn until something better comes out. I bought 3 on clearance last year for total $36 and still have 2 full. If I have to pay $36 for 1 still worth my money.

ENCORE50A said:

Is this the post you're referring to?



If so.....I'll agree with the use of regular cleaning fluids when shooting BH209.

However, I still stand by my original statement of cleaning T7 in my rifle is much faster and I'll use less patches than any rifle I've owned shooting BH209.
What wasn't pointed out in my original statement, was that the rifle was a UF and not a "normal" production rifle. I should apologize for not being specific about the rifle.
I can take my time cleaning that rifle, use no more than 6 patches and be done in less than 7 minutes. Spotless clean. All while making a completely amateur video.

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I clean my inline just like a side lock. I use cheap pyrodex 2f in my inline rifle and inline shotgun. And I use Goex 3f in my side locks. I just cannot see paying that amount for BH or 777 myself, but I leave on a tighter budget than most of you guys too. Now if I could afford it, I would try out BH and 777 for sure. Good video friend and nice looking rifle.

Doccbst1 said:

I started with Goex FF for my sidelock. The got an inline so I could use a scope. Found out about 777 and loved it. Shot great and not to bad to clean with soap and water. Then came Blackhorn, didn't really work for my magbolt even with mods, had misfires. Bought another rifle just for Blackhorn. TC Impact, out of the box Blackhorn ready $189 shipped.
I took a chance and just cleaned yesterday, last shot 12/19/19 after being loaded and 3 fouling shots 12/14/19.
Yea, I took a big chance but I had to verify all I'd read.
Easiest rifle I've ever cleaned, 2 dry patches very dirty then used 2 patches wet with Hoppes Elite. 2'nd wet almost clean, Then 2 dry patches last came out clean.
Expensive but this stuffs for real and my inline rifles will only see Blackhorn until something better comes out. I bought 3 on clearance last year for total $36 and still have 2 full. If I have to pay $36 for 1 still worth my money.

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I love my Impact. How about you?

The Impact is a solid shooter, to me the best out of the box value ML available. I bought the original for $189 shipped. The ability to use Blackhorn without buying a special BP was the closer. I actually like the closed/covered action and side release breakdown lever. Trigger is great and the hammer in my low mount scope is tight but manageable. A keeper for me.

James Sparhawk said:

I clean my inline just like a side lock. I use cheap pyrodex 2f in my inline rifle and inline shotgun. And I use Goex 3f in my side locks. I just cannot see paying that amount for BH or 777 myself, but I leave on a tighter budget than most of you guys too. Now if I could afford it, I would try out BH and 777 for sure. Good video friend and nice looking rifle.

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I shared your opinion for years about the cost of BH209. Actually I could afford it but thought it wasn't logical no more than I shoot my ML. The when I finally took a look at the results overs were getting I decided to get better groups I would give it a try. I give lots of credit to the fellows here for that information.

Now that I tested BH209 I am completely convinced it is far better than others. I actually have fun shooting my inline ML rather than wonder why there is so much variation in the groupings.

-There is not need to swab in between shoots.
-There is no crude ring at the ignition point.
-Each load goes in just as easy as the first.
-Measuring and pouring is just a small requirement that fine to cope with
-And if you shoot only 80 gr loads you may find it as cheat as pellets because there are (78) 80 gr loads in one 10 oz container.
-Easier to clean because it is cleaner burning

BH209 is amazing!