Straight from SHOT SHOW, Nitrofire

I got confirmation from Chris Hodgdon that the Triple 8 powder utilized in the Nitrofire preloaded rounds will FOR NOW NOT be available in loose form.

AP2020 said:

I got confirmation from Chris Hodgdon that the Triple 8 powder utilized in the Nitrofire preloaded rounds will FOR NOW NOT be available in loose form.

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Well , thats a turn in the right ditection .

Thanks Nito.

I'm sure they are waiting for a tipping point where Blackhorn 209 eats up a certain percentage of the market share?

They've got other loose powders and those expensive pellets to sell. They would really only be competing with themselves at this point, because they would have to price it accordingly. They would mostly just lose their market share on another of their products. Pyrodex loose, Pyrodex Pellets, Triple Se7en loose, Triple Se7en Pellets/ Magnum Pellets, IMR White Hots, supply Alliant Blue MZ.

Blackhorn 209 shooters have had 12 years to get comfortable, so it's doubtful that a large percentage of that base will jump ship for another loose powder. That is unless the performance is the same or better, and the price is much better.

They really are damned if they do, and at some point damned if they don't! I guess we'll have to let them decide where that point is.

It's obviously Nitrocellulose based like Blackhorn 209, per cleaning instructions and NITROFIRE as the name of the rifle. Were you able to determine from Chris if it is classified as smokeless, or a black powder substitute? That will be the determining factor in some states like Michigan where the only limitation is it has to be "black powder or a commercially manufactured black powder substitute".

Looking at the Michigan Regs, I think they'll be able to skirt the latest wording. That's how the black powder cartridge pistols slipped in the back door several years ago.

Straight from the Michigan Conservation Order (Regs).

Chapter II, General Hunting and Trapping Regulations.

".....(c) A muzzle-loading rifle or black-powder pistol loaded with black-powder or a commercially manufactured blackpowder substitute.".....

https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-350-79136_79772_80261-120756--,00.html


Just for the record, I don't have a problem with black powder cartridge pistols being allowed in the muzzleloading deer seasons. It can't even be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the hunters. They've already opened up the CWD Core Area and the CWD Management Zone, to any legal firearm. So our Muzzleloading Deer Season in Mid-Michigan is already a free for all.

The only ways the Nitrofire and FireSticks will be illegal here for the Muzzleloading Deer Season, is if the powder is classified as smokeless. The other way will be if they come right out and name it as being illegal, like they did with the AirBow (air rifle that shoots arrows). The AirBow is not legal for taking any game in any season, period.


Hard telling what hairbrained ideas the DNR and NRC (Natural Resources Commission) will come up with or allow. They just implemented Antler Point Restrictions in the middle 3 counties of the CWD Core Area beginning last fall, so go figure?

Michigan House Bill 4554 (2007) which would allow smokeless powder in capable rifles where black powder/black powder substitutes can be used, has been dead in the water since 2007. It was introduced by our last Lt. Governor before he was elected then reelected for two 4 year terms.

https://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1...g.aspx?page=getObject&objectname=2007-HB-4554


The DNR Law Division will not budge on the smokeless.

http://www.michigandnr.com/legislationdocs/position/HB 4554 Analysis.htm

Chris told me that he was sworn to secrecy for now. I can only assume Federal Cartridge is dictating to them.

Triple 8 is the name of the powder.

Yep. I already posted the link to the trademark and it says it right on the pack of Fiddlesticks

AP2020 said:

Chris told me that he was sworn to secrecy for now. I can only assume Federal Cartridge is dictating to them.

Triple 8 is the name of the powder.

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Yeah, I found the trademarks, all three of them the night encore posted the Hodgdon thread. GM posted a link to them in that thread.

The problem I see is several others using the Triple 8, Triple Eight trademarks.

I did find these 3 for Hodgdon.


TRIPLE EIGHT

TRIPLE EI8HT

All Live (Circa:2019)

https://www.trademarkia.com/company-hodgdon-powder-company-inc-565195-page-1-2


But, I also found this, and several other companies using the Triple Eight, Triple 8.
https://triple8.com/about-us/

Here is some information on triple ei8ht.


......."TRIPLE EI8HT Trademark Information

Hodgdon Powder Company, Inc.

Propellant powder for fire arms; gunpowder".....

......"Status Update!
On Tuesday, January 14, 2020, status on the TRIPLE EI8HT trademark changed to NOTICE OF ALLOWANCE - ISSUED."......


......"Classification Information

Intent to Use Trademark - Applicant has not submitted proof of use in commerce the the USPTO.

Primary Class: Class Details:
Class (013)
Firearms; ammunition and projectiles; explosives; fireworks.
First Use Anywhere: : Not provided
First Use In Commerce: Not provided".......

https://trademark.trademarkia.com/triple-ei8ht-88614376.html

https://trademark.trademarkia.com/triple-eight-88527378.html

https://trademark.trademarkia.com/triple-ei8ht-88527388.html




This is one I'm going to keep an eye on.



Live (Circa:2019)


"LOAD WARRIOR Trademark Information

Western Powders, Inc.

Black powder; Gunpowder"


https://trademark.trademarkia.com/load-warrior-88321479.html

Seems like very new age where everything is "De Constructed". It's just a 45-70 where they stopped short of actually loading the bullet into the cartridge for you. Any how, nice go at re inventing the wheel. Not my cup of tea but what ever... same goes for the top secret Lehigh project. My personal feelings are that states with dedicated muzzleloading seasons may eventually throw up there hands at all the modern attempts at making muzzleloaders into modern cartridge rifles and just blend all firearms user groups into one with no special seasons. I for one got into muzzleloading for the added challenge and for the lower numbers of hunters in the field. Hate to see the industry "innovate" themselves right out business. Maybe on the plus side, my state will recognize it and then I can raise a stink and get my BPCR ok'd for "muzzleloader" season??? One can hope I guess.

Harleysboss said:

Seems like very new age where everything is "De Constructed". It's just a 45-70 where they stopped short of actually loading the bullet into the cartridge for you. Any how, nice go at re inventing the wheel. Not my cup of tea but what ever... same goes for the top secret Lehigh project. My personal feelings are that states with dedicated muzzleloading seasons may eventually throw up there hands at all the modern attempts at making muzzleloaders into modern cartridge rifles and just blend all firearms user groups into one with no special seasons. I for one got into muzzleloading for the added challenge and for the lower numbers of hunters in the field. Hate to see the industry "innovate" themselves right out business. Maybe on the plus side, my state will recognize it and then I can raise a stink and get my BPCR ok'd for "muzzleloader" season??? One can hope I guess.

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I hope this is not the case but I believe it will eventually come to that in Tennessee. There has already been a push to just make it one "gun" season after archery.

Making it all one season with special "managed hunts" makes more sense than what i see in many states. Offer the managed hunts lottery style with leftovers (over the counter). Those hunts should be before firearms and not state wide but in enough areas people can make use of them.

GM54-120 said:

Making it all one season with special "managed hunts" makes more sense than what i see in many states. Offer the managed hunts lottery style with leftovers (over the counter). Those hunts should be before firearms and not state wide but in enough areas people can make use of them.

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We already do that with numerous WMA Draw Hunts for archery, muzzleloader and rifle. The permits that are not drawn are then sold first come first basis. The deer are also bonus deer and do not count towards the statewide limit. Currently Muzzleloader Season is the two weeks prior to the rifle season and pretty much falls during the rut. Lot less hunters in the woods during ML season. If it were to go to any gun the weekend after archery there would be tons more hunters in the woods.

Mine is not though. My "ML season" is not until Dec. 28th. Long after the normal deer season ends on November 24th and anterless only Dec 4th-6th. Our managed hunts start very close to the beginning of firearms season. Some just a couple days before for many of them. No more than a week for any of them. Those are on conservation and refuge land also. So chances are really good of filling a tag.

They dont sell the leftovers though. If turnout is poor they just change the hunt to something more appealing like a CF hunt for future hunts.