Thompson Center Hawken/Renegade Variances

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Idaholewis

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This is something i have wanted to do for awhile, Frustration from buying a New Stock without a Tang is what helped me to Decide to Post this.

I know there are LOTS of Folks that Strip these Old TC Stocks down, and Sell EVERY part Separately, Obviously to make as much money as they Possibly Can. I Try my BEST to BOYCOTT Those Sellers, I won’t buy from them unless I ABSOLUTELY have to have a Part, I will wait til i find a COMPLETE Stock that Has NOT been Stripped of it’s Parts

The Rifles that were put together, and Fitted by TC (NOT Kit Guns) are usually Fitted pretty Well. If they Seen a BIG GAP at the Factory they could pretty easily Fix it, Fit it Properly, Etc. When i see these Stocks that have Been COMPLETELY Stripped of their Parts the First thing that comes to my mind is Fitting that Stock Back with Parts from another Rifle, They DON’T all fit right!! Some NOT AT ALL!!

Here is Why Parts from 1 Rifle DON’T all, Always Fit Right “Drop in” There are like 3 Variations of The Hawken, and the Renegade. Starting from the VERY BEGINNING, The OLDEST Rifles (Variation 1) Then there is a Variation 2, and a Later Variation (Newest Models) All 3 of these Variations have Slight Differences, to LARGE ones! So lets say you have a REALLY Old Stock (Variation 1) And you need Parts for it? You buy a WHOLE Bunch of Parts off Ebay, Only to find out that Some of them DON’T FIT :(

The oldest Variation 1 Tangs used 2 Wood Screws To mount the Tang in Place. The Later versions only use 1 Wood Screw in the Rear Hole, and a Long Machine Screw in the Front Tang Hole, This Long Machine Screw goes all the way through the Stock and Threads in to the Trigger Guard. These Parts do NOT interchange, You need to be aware of that, and Know EXACTLY what you have, and What you need?

Here are examples of Locks, Notice the Hammer Changes, There are Slight variances in the Lock Plates as well, Even the Sears (there are 2 Different ones)

Lock Assembly - w/ High Spur Hammer - Early Variation - Original
tpFGLxV.jpg


Lock Assembly - w/ High Spur Hammer - Late Variation - Original
SQsn9a2.jpg


Lock Assembly - w/ Low Spur Hammer - Late Variation - Original
s171zJw.jpg


Lock Plates:

Lock Plate - 1st Variation - Original


NUkuZd3.jpg

This Thompson Center manufactured first variation lock plate is for the percussion Hawken muzzle loading rifle which uses the first variation sear and a sear screw

Lock Plate - 2nd Variation - Original
STob1KQ.jpg

This Thompson Center manufactured second variation lock plate is for the later percussion Hawken muzzle loading rifle which uses the second variation sear lacking the need of a sear screw
 
This is where i got the Pics above, This Guy does a Good Job of Describing each Part, And Variances

Scroll down through and Read, ALMOST All Parts Have Different Variations, From the OLDEST Guns, to the Newest of their Rifles before they Quit Making them. If you need a Part for your Hawken/Renegade? THIS STUFF IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW!!

Thompson Center Hawken Parts
http://cfnparts.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=438


Thompson Center Renegade Parts
http://cfnparts.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=680
 
I have been looking at that site regarding Renegade parts over the past week.

Since I need to scope my Renegade, I was wondering if a tall hammer spur lock will interchange with a low hammer spur lock?

I am going to want to have the hammer spur bent out to the right, as well as have the scope base offset to the left; in order to provide maximum clearance between the ocular bell of the scope, and the hammer spur/shooter's thumb.

I thought the bending would be easier with the taller hammer spur, as opposed to the lower one.

Thoughts, anyone?
 
A LOT of folks don’t realize this Stuff? I mess with these Old TC Hawken/Renegades SO MUCH that i have ran across everything Imaginable, The Different Variations, Fit, etc.

If a guy a needs a Part? It’s IMPORTANT to Know what you Have? And What you need? They are NOT all the Same


Right here is what i am dealing with now, The Stock i bought did NOT come with a Tang, and of ALL things it’s a “Silver Elite” The guy i bought it from had Sold the Barrel, and Tang from the Stock Separately, which Created me a BIG PROBLEM!

Here is the TC Hawken Tang i had on Hand and Hoped I would be able to use? This is the OLD Variation 1 That uses 2 Simple Wood Screws to Anchor it Down, This one is Also Factory Drilled and Tapped for a Tang Peep Sight, you can see the Thread Plug
1mtKLMU.jpg


I get the New Stock, and LO N BEHOLD it is the Newer Variation, it Requires the Long Machined Screw that Goes in the Forward Tang Hole, ALL THE WAY THROUGH the Stock, and Screws in to the Trigger Guard

See the 2 Holes i have Arrows Pointing to? The RED Arrow is Pointing to the Hole that the LONG Machined Screw i am Referring to Goes in to. The purple arrow is pointing at the Little Hole that uses a Simple Small Wood Screw (you can see them to the left) to Hold the Trigger Guard to the Stock.
CmWRft1.jpg


Here is the Long Front Tang Screw i am Talking about that goes ALL the way through the Stock and in to the Trigger Guard, this is the Screw i need for my New Stock. Quite a bit different than a little Wood Screw Huh?
smPWytN.jpg


And here for Demonstration, Educational purposes is an Old Variation 1 Trigger Guard, Notice this one ONLY HAS the 1 little Hole for the Small Wood Screw to hold the Trigger Guard to the Stock. This one does NOT have the 2nd Hole that the Long Machined Screw Goes through
Nrq0Q1k.jpg
 
ALL OF THE ABOVE is why I BOYCOTT Buying from Guy’s that STRIP these Old Stocks Down of Their Factory put together Parts, and Sell Them Separately. It can become a ROYAL PITA to find all of the Correct Parts/Variations to Put them Back together. NOT TO Mention POOR Fit & Finish

My advice is to Buy a COMPLETE Stock, With ALL Factory Parts attached. You might think you are getting away Cheaper? And you might Just luck out and Do so? But there’s a MUCH better Chance that you will end up Spending WAY more in the End, and have CR@PPY Fit & Finish

The ONLY time i will buy Spare Parts from the Folks that Strip them, is When i have no other Choice
 
I am going to address this response to Mr. Conyers, and all those others who make off the cuff comments which are often taken by the OP (myself in this case) in the wrong way.

When someone takes the time to ask a question, if you don't have something positive to say, then the prudent thing to do is say nothing at all.

My question was about hammer spurs in regards to clearance with a scope, NOT whether or not I should alter a Renegade in a way that someone else might not care for.

First of all, these rifles are just tools to be used for the purposes of providing food for one's table, competition, or personal enjoyment.

They ARE NOT objects of veneration to be held up and admired, never to be used, or altered from their "ORIGINAL" state, whatever that is.

As someone whose first m-l was a semi-custom flintlock longrifle, with a price tag of $330.00, in 1971, at the age of 17, working for over a year at minimum wage after school to pay for it; I feel that I HAVE MORE THAN PAID MY DUES as far as the traditional side of muzzleloading goes.

I paid those DUES by putting up with ALL the crap and garbage that my parents, their friends, our adult neighbors, and my peers gave me for wanting something that almost everyone thought was completely off the wall, and in many cases, just plain wrong.

Second, if I wanted to purchase an inline, I would be over in the inline section of the forum asking my questions there.

However, I DO NOT WANT TO OWN AN INLINE MUZZLELOADING RIFLE.

Period!!

I considered inlines quite seriously, decided the ONLY one I would consider owning was a White, exchanged several e-mails with, and had one phone conversation with Doc; and ultimately made up my mind that inlines WERE NOT FOR ME.

Third, most people shooting muzzleloader's in 2020 are wearing prosthetic eyewear to allow them to see.

I am someone, who when he was very young, can recall when he WAS THE ONLY KID IN A SCHOOL OF 400 THAT WORE GLASSES.

Is anyone seriously suggesting that only people that don't need GLASSES are allowed to shoot sidelocks? Because, after all, in the 18th & 19th centuries, hardly anyone WORE glasses.

I'm not!

But, I constantly hear on ALL the muzzleloading forums that:

"I'll never put a scope on my flintlock/percussion longrifle because it won't look right. When that time comes I will just stop shooting/hunting."

And, I've read where they have done just that.

Why would ANYONE stop doing what they loved because of bad vision, when there is an easy solution that does not require surgery, or a HUGE investment in money?

I know I'm not going to stop. Until, the VA decides that my cataracts are bad enough to be operated on, I'm stuck with the eyes that GOD gave me.

And, I intend to enjoy my life to the fullest by shooting and hunting with a scoped, short-barreled, .58 caliber, gain twist, slung, T/C Renegade Scout Rifle.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. Just, PLEASE stop stuffing the no scopes on a sidelock
down people's throats, every time putting a scope on a sidelock is brought up.

How many people have been frustrated with going down the peep sight road? As much as the peep sight helps, it is also not for everyone (me!).

So, has anyone swapped a high spur lock for a low spur lock? Do they interchange? I could not get a sense of interchangeability from the Classic Firearms and Parts website.

Thanks

Rant over,

Bruce
 
Bruce, Should be No problem on the Lock Switch, i have done it before, The difference in lock plate Variations is the Sears.

I have Switched Hammers Around several times, i prefer the Old Variation 1 High Spur Hammers, I have switched out the Low Spur Late Version to the Older High Spurs without any issues Several Times. I was worried about Hammer Face to Nipple Alignment by Switching? But was Not a problem in my Cases, The few times i have Ran Across an issue with Alignment, i removed the Hammer from the Rifle, Heated it with Acetylene Torch and Bent it where i needed :lewis: If it is off Ever so Slightly, you can Shim the Hammer, and Lock Etc. To get good Alignment



 
I have a 1x scope on my TC Renegade that I had a smith mount for me, probably 20 years ago or longer. It runs in my mind he cut my hammer (spur) and welded it into a new orientation to accommodate the scope. I’ll have to check it tomorrow and see.
 
Omega218r
If you no longer have a use for the modified hammer, let me know what postage to Baltimore, Md. is, and I'll send you the funds. Thanks for the offer!!

sdporter
Thanks for the offer of the information, and taking the time to look at your rifle to check. I greatly appreciate it!!

Thanks again to you both.
Bruce
 
I have been looking at that site regarding Renegade parts over the past week.

Since I need to scope my Renegade, I was wondering if a tall hammer spur lock will interchange with a low hammer spur lock?

I am going to want to have the hammer spur bent out to the right, as well as have the scope base offset to the left; in order to provide maximum clearance between the ocular bell of the scope, and the hammer spur/shooter's thumb.

I thought the bending would be easier with the taller hammer spur, as opposed to the lower one.

Thoughts, anyone?

Keep an eye out for Thompson Center Base Adapter # 9930 for Renegade/ Hawken and Thompson Center TC Base - #9886. The base adapter (9930) is off-set and eliminates the need to bend the hammer. Though these items are becoming increasingly rare, they do show up on auction sites from time to time.
 
I have a 1x scope on my TC Renegade that I had a smith mount for me, probably 20 years ago or longer. It runs in my mind he cut my hammer (spur) and welded it into a new orientation to accommodate the scope. I’ll have to check it tomorrow and see.
Forgot to look. I’ll try and remember in the morning
 
I have a 1x scope on my TC Renegade that I had a smith mount for me, probably 20 years ago or longer. It runs in my mind he cut my hammer (spur) and welded it into a new orientation to accommodate the scope. I’ll have to check it tomorrow and see.
Ok so it doesn’t appear to be cut and welded, what time does to memories makes for some awesome stories! It looks like it was just bent. Lewis would know better than anyone. This is just a 1x scope, but that’s all I needed to be able to get some sort of focus. You can see, it just clears the rear bell, but that’s all it needs to do is clear it.
 

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Thanks for finding the rifle/scope combo, and posting the images.

I just received the hammer from Omega218r this afternoon. The spur on the hammer he sent me has been bent outwards so that when viewed from behind, the tip of the spur is outboard of the hammer itself almost the full thickness of the hammer.

Measuring center of the spur's tip to the center of the hammer with my grandfather's 1/64" steel scale; gives an offset of 0.34375", or 11/32".

Combined with a left-offset scope base, the two should take care of any scope that I might wish to mount on a Renegade.

Thanks,
Bruce
 
Ok so it doesn’t appear to be cut and welded, what time does to memories makes for some awesome stories! It looks like it was just bent. Lewis would know better than anyone. This is just a 1x scope, but that’s all I needed to be able to get some sort of focus. You can see, it just clears the rear bell, but that’s all it needs to do is clear it.

She looks FACTORY Stock :lewis: That is a late Variation Hammer, they came with that slight offset
 
Thanks for finding the rifle/scope combo, and posting the images.

I just received the hammer from Omega218r this afternoon. The spur on the hammer he sent me has been bent outwards so that when viewed from behind, the tip of the spur is outboard of the hammer itself almost the full thickness of the hammer.

Measuring center of the spur's tip to the center of the hammer with my grandfather's 1/64" steel scale; gives an offset of 0.34375", or 11/32".

Combined with a left-offset scope base, the two should take care of any scope that I might wish to mount on a Renegade.

Thanks,
Bruce

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned or not? But TC Made a Scope Base for the Hawken/Renegade (i have one), and their Other Rifles as well. It has the Off Set built in Needed for Clearance. They are a 1 Piece Aluminum Base, they made them in Black, and Silver. I have contemplated sending mine to Murphy’s Precision and having him Duplicate it, Plus ad in about 40 MOA So i could Mount it on my 1-18 Twist .45 Cal for some REALLY Long Range Fun Stuff

The TC Scope Base used the 2 Rear Sight Holes AND the 1 Far rearward Hole at the Breech end (it Likely has a little plug in it) This far rearward hole is Just Slightly Forward of Tang/Hooked Breech

These are NOT My pictures, i just grabbed them off the Net to Show here. Here is the TC Base, I believe it is Part #9930, I see these for Sale from time to time
L9dWrgM.jpg


6k3rjdK.jpg
 
Lewis,
I've seen images of those bases mounted onto Renegade barrels, but I never knew that they were a T/C product.

Are all breech plugs drilled and tapped for that third screw? I think I recall seeing a picture of the top of a breech plug that had the hole without a plug in it. It has got to be a small thread, something like a 4-40?

Bruce

p.s.
What type of rings work with that T/C base #9930? Will ordinary Weaver rings fit the base?

Thanks
 
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