GOEX vs. Swiss

ihookem said:

Well everyone, I bought the last pound of Swiss the guns shop had. It was $34.71 with tax. I did a little shooting with it today One 5 shot group that did not do good. I think the flier was the 1st shot. I did not shoot a cap off first and for some reason the 1st cap did not go off. I put on a new #11 non mag. Cci and it id a split second hang fire. I think this was the flier. The other 4 shots were in 2" . This was only @ 55yds however. The next 4 shot group was 1 1/2" @ 55 yds . This is as good as I ever did but have done as good. I think it shoots better cause 1 1/2" was not real common , but have down it before. Tomorrow I will shoot GOEX, Old Eynsord and Swiss. I also shot Speer round balls and my home made round balls. This may not hurt my groups, but I am sure it doesnt help neither.

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Semisane said:

I’ve always been a GOEX guy. I hardly ever shoot any of the black powder subs. Also, I’ve never tried Swiss black powder even though I’ve seen numerous reports that it produces better accuracy, is cleaner burning and load for load yields higher and more consistent velocities than GOEX.

So after many years of resisting the lure of Swiss I decided to get some and see for myself. This is a report of my side-by-side comparison of Swiss and GOEX in the 2F and 3F granulations of each.

For this exercise I chose to use my TC Renegade with a .45 caliber 1:30” twist Green Mountain barrel and shoot full bore conicals. I chose this gun and bullet for three reasons; the gun wears a Simmons 4X ProDiamond shotgun scope to keep aiming errors to a minimum, it’s already zeroed in for the load I planned to shoot, and I’ve shot the gun and bullet enough to know what kind of accuracy can be expected.

I installed a new AMPCO nipple at the beginning the shooting session and followed the following procedures for the test:

1. Four targets were shot at 100 yards, with five shots on each target and a different powder used for each target. All shots were over a chronograph 10 feet from the muzzle.

2. The first shot on each target was from a cold clean barrel with a three to five minute cooling period between each of the following four shots.

3. The bore was wiped between each shot with both sides of a fresh patch lightly moistened with 91% Isopropyl alcohol - one stroke down and up with each side. The bore was fully cleaned between targets.

4. For the first shot on each target, the bullet was seated until it just touched the powder. Then a stop collar on the loading rod was locked in place 1/8” above the muzzle and the load compressed that one-eighth inch. The stop collar remained locked in that position for the following four shots to assure the consistent load compression. The stop collar was reset in this manner for each target.

5. Pre-weighed powder charges of 85 grains actual weight were used.

6. The bullets were flat nose conicals cast from pure soft lead then sized and lubed to .452 diameter. They were weight sorted to assure that all were between 464.0 and 464.5 grains, and inspected to assure all had undamaged bases with sharp corners.

7. A 1/2” diameter 1/8” thick unlubed wool wad was used under the base of the bullets.

8. Winchester #11 magnum percussion caps from the same tin were used.

9. Shots were from a bench using a Caldwell shooting rest under the foreend and a rabbit ear bag under the butt stock.

Here are the charges ready to be shot.

Here’s the shooting bench and range.

Here are the four targets.

Here are the cleaning patches that were used to wipe the bore between the fourth and fifth shot with each powder.

And here’s a summary of the results.

You may draw your own conclusions. It’s pretty clear that Swiss produces significantly higher velocities. I didn’t find a noticeable difference with respect to the degree of fouling produced by the two powders. However, that may be because I was wiping the bore between each shot. Results may be different with a long shot string without wiping. I’ll never know because I always wipe between shots.

With respect to accuracy potential, I found no significant difference between the two powders – at least not within my shooting ability or with this particular bullet and load. One day I’ll try a similar side-by-side comparison with patched balls in my .54 Great Plains flintlock. I’ll likely be a GOEX guy forever. I like the stuff and I like supporting an American company.

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ihookem said:

Anyone try Schutzen?? If ya buy it online it gets very reasonable. And yes, it seems there is not much difference in black at 50 yds. I want to shoot 100 yds soon and that may make a difference.

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ihookem said:

I only shoot 50 gr. cause my patches tear after about 55 gr. . It is a new Green Mountain barrel and hope th elands dull down some.

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ihookem said:

I have not done that. I heard of it before though. I could give it a try . I dont mind shooting 50 gr. though neither. I'm only shooting 50 yds. When I hunt for deer, I rarely see them farther out than that anyway and 50 gr. would be all I need. I had to go down to 45 gr . with the Swiss 2F cause even that was tearing the ticking patch. I am getting about 150 rounds per pound that way however which does not bother me at all , and I dont think it kicks harder than my .243 Win. I feel like I am screwing up the barrel but will give it a try. I might just get the JB paste and put it on a patch. Would that also work? Just a cleaning patch?

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ihookem said:

I have not done that. I heard of it before though. I could give it a try . I dont mind shooting 50 gr. though neither. I'm only shooting 50 yds. When I hunt for deer, I rarely see them farther out than that anyway and 50 gr. would be all I need. I had to go down to 45 gr . with the Swiss 2F cause even that was tearing the ticking patch. I am getting about 150 rounds per pound that way however which does not bother me at all , and I dont think it kicks harder than my .243 Win. I feel like I am screwing up the barrel but will give it a try. I might just get the JB paste and put it on a patch. Would that also work? Just a cleaning patch?

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eekjellander said:

You"d be wrong ,I do OE 1 1/2-2 and 3F weekly ! And what I posted is accurate as it applies to what was mentioned about vertical and unpredictable groups and their cause . What brand you shoot is not as important as what I posted as IF you don"t take those steps YOU WILL get those results to one degree or another .The cause is the same /someone said I wonder so I answered/That"s all in my opinion( yours may vary) / Ed

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MSalyards said:

This feller does kinda good with OE, View attachment 7990

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eekjellander said:

700m is short ok ,go on you tube and visit our short range, Rob (RFD )posts several shooting (short) . Like I said my opinion I"m the short c guy shooting the C Sharps 74 45/70 and not huffy just stating opinion based on fact .Ignore what I posted as you got offended ,was trying to help having (Some experience) in my estimation worth what it costs (I"m done)Ed

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