1:48 twist, 45 cal TC Hawken, paper patch

[James Sparhawk]

Which bullet and diameter would yaw recommend from Buffalo Arms? I don't know exact barrel diameter but maxi balls go down easier than a 440 round ball with .018 patch.
I want to switch to a paper patch bullet. Also, can I wrap a maxi ball?

 

[GM54-120]

Looks to me like they only offer 1 pure lead .441 bullet for PP and its 1.020" long. Do you really think that a 1-48 is going to stabilize that?
https://www.buffaloarms.com/441-dia...pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb441350

I dont think so and neither does kwk. http://kwk.us/twist.html

 

[James Sparhawk]

Looks to me like they only offer 1 pure lead .441 bullet for PP and its 1.020" long. Do you really think that a 1-48 is going to stabilize that?
https://www.buffaloarms.com/441-dia...pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb441350

I dont think so and neither does kwk. http://kwk.us/twist.html

I am not a pro. I joined this forum so I can learn how to shoot something other than a round ball or maxi ball. Thanks for your reply and link. But you didn't have to sound so arrogant.

 

[James Sparhawk]

Looks to me like they only offer 1 pure lead .441 bullet for PP and its 1.020" long. Do you really think that a 1-48 is going to stabilize that?
https://www.buffaloarms.com/441-dia...pure-lead-cup-base-bullet-box-of-50-ppb441350

I dont think so and neither does kwk. http://kwk.us/twist.html

Can u explain why a 1:48 twist does not stabilize a bullet that long, if you mind me asking. I am just trying to learn.

 

[dbowling]

Because the twist in the barrel is not fast enough to spin it enough to stabilize it is as good a reason as I can come up with.

 

[Harleysboss]

I plugged in some genaric numbers into a barrel twist calculator and you will be close if you go with a bullet length of .70" at .45 cal shot at approx 1400fps. The optimum per the formula says 1-39 twist but your 1-48 may shoot it ok. Paper patching takes an under sized bullet then wrapped with paper back to just fit down the bore. Very important to get the wrap and fit right. Swab to a clean dry bore between shots as to not tear the paper patch off on the next loading. Do some searching on this site and others and you will get some good info. I dont think that the 1 inch plus bullet will shoot from your 1-48..just to long. Bullet shooting from a muzzy loader usually takes a faster twist so the proper length wrapped bullet can be shot. If a maxi shoots ok for you, you can search for an under sized bullet or mold and try to duplicate its length, wrap back to size. Its not hard but it takes some special equipment to get everything just right for "Your " rifle, I mean size dies proper molds/bullets and the paper #9 onion skin. It wont be something that you just get right the first time without some practice and experimenting on your part. I have no 1-48 experience so I'm not your guy. Good luck with your journey.

 

[GM54-120]

Think about it like this

You throw a football without enough spin on it.
What happens?

A 1-48 was a compromise twist from the get go. You could shoot round balls and some Maxis or Minis. Even some short bullets in sabots but it did nothing as well as a twist intended for a specific projectile. Round ball twists are normally slower...much slower like 1-66. Green Mountain LRH barrels for 45 are 1-32 but even that is a tiny bit slow for a 45cal bullet 1" long. A 1-28 would work better with the bullet i linked according to the twist calculators. Shooting 45cal bullets over an inch long you are better off with a 1-20 to a 1-24 depending on how fast you can shoot them.

What might shoot is a 40cal bullet in a sabot. I have never run the numbers with a twist that slow and never really paid attention to the length of the cheap bullets like the Hornady 180gr or 200gr XTP.

A Nosler 180gr 10mm bullet is .62" long and the 200gr is .674
So lets see what kwk says at 1700fps which should be easy to do...nope still too long

What about the 150gr which is .535" long...getting closer but now you are shooting a projectile that is more or less inferior to the heavier 45cal Maxi or REAL

 

[idahoron]

Which bullet and diameter would yaw recommend from Buffalo Arms? I don't know exact barrel diameter but maxi balls go down easier than a 440 round ball with .018 patch.
I want to switch to a paper patch bullet. Also, can I wrap a maxi ball?

Like the others have said, the slow twist in your barrel is just not capable of stabilizing the longer bullets. You might be able to paper patch some real short 45 cal pistol bullets.

 

[James Sparhawk]

Think about it like this

You throw a football without enough spin on it.
What happens?

A 1-48 was a compromise twist from the get go. You could shoot round balls and some Maxis or Minis. Even some short bullets in sabots but it did nothing as well as a twist intended for a specific projectile. Round ball twists are normally slower...much slower like 1-66. Green Mountain LRH barrels for 45 are 1-32 but even that is a tiny bit slow for a 45cal bullet 1" long. A 1-28 would work better with the bullet i linked according to the twist calculators. Shooting 45cal bullets over an inch long you are better off with a 1-20 to a 1-24 depending on how fast you can shoot them.

What might shoot is a 40cal bullet in a sabot. I have never run the numbers with a twist that slow and never really paid attention to the length of the cheap bullets like the Hornady 180gr or 200gr XTP.

A Nosler 180gr 10mm bullet is .62" long and the 200gr is .674
So lets see what kwk says at 1700fps which should be easy to do...nope still too long

What about the 150gr which is .535" long...getting closer but now you are shooting a projectile that is more or less inferior to the heavier 45cal Maxi or REAL

I will just stick with prb's and maxiball with this gun. Thanks

 

[James Sparhawk]

Think about it like this

You throw a football without enough spin on it.
What happens?

A 1-48 was a compromise twist from the get go. You could shoot round balls and some Maxis or Minis. Even some short bullets in sabots but it did nothing as well as a twist intended for a specific projectile. Round ball twists are normally slower...much slower like 1-66. Green Mountain LRH barrels for 45 are 1-32 but even that is a tiny bit slow for a 45cal bullet 1" long. A 1-28 would work better with the bullet i linked according to the twist calculators. Shooting 45cal bullets over an inch long you are better off with a 1-20 to a 1-24 depending on how fast you can shoot them.

What might shoot is a 40cal bullet in a sabot. I have never run the numbers with a twist that slow and never really paid attention to the length of the cheap bullets like the Hornady 180gr or 200gr XTP.

A Nosler 180gr 10mm bullet is .62" long and the 200gr is .674
So lets see what kwk says at 1700fps which should be easy to do...nope still too long

What about the 150gr which is .535" long...getting closer but now you are shooting a projectile that is more or less inferior to the heavier 45cal Maxi or REAL

I believe a 44 cal revolver conical may work? they are .450 and fairly short. I will buy a box to see, and if not, I can always use them for my pistol.

 

[James Sparhawk]

Like the others have said, the slow twist in your barrel is just not capable of stabilizing the longer bullets. You might be able to paper patch some real short 45 cal pistol bullets.

I will buy a box of 44 cal 200 grain revolver conical s and a pack of the onion paper. If they do not work for my rifle, I can always use them in my Army revolver.

 

[Idaholewis]

This is an interesting project James i have a 188 Grain .45 ACP Pistol Bullet that i Bet would be good here, i have 3 different Bullets in total that i think would work well for this. The Tricky part with the 3 Bullets i have is their Size from the Mold, The Correct way to Paper Patch a Bullet is to Patch it “UP TO” Your Bore. So You need a bullet about .442-.443, I have a .442 Sizer. I will do some playing around here and see what i come up with? I don’t have a Stock 1:48 Twist .45 Cal, i have one Slow 1:66 Roundball Twist .45, all of my others are Fast, Bullet Twist Barrels

I like this one the best

 

[Idaholewis]

Green Mountain LRH barrels for 45 are 1-32 but even that is a tiny bit slow for a 45cal bullet 1" long.

The Green Mountain LRH .45s are 1:30 Twist

I have often wondered why they chose 1:30 for their .45s when they went 1:28 for their .50 and .54, The 1:30 would have made the most sense in the .54 Cal, 1:32 even better. No complaints here, All of my GM LRH Barrels Shoot good, But my 1:20 Twist Rice .45 Cal will SPANK my 1:30 .45 Cal Green Mountain LRH

 

[GM54-120]

Dont know why i said 1-32. Must have had Lyman on my mind. No idea why they didnt go with 1-28 like virtually all the other inline 45s or maybe something sort of unique like a 1-24. I found 1-30 to be just a little slow for me but its fine for a huge selection of bullets. GMB used a 1-24 for the 50cal Sharpshooter barrel and that is what Pedersoli uses for fast twist 50s too. You see very few 45s out there in 1-24.

 

[Idaholewis]

I did some tinkering I have no doubt this little Bullet will shoot in a 1:48 Twist. These are Cast of Certified Pure Lead and weigh in at 260 Grains. IRONICALLY This bullet measures Exactly the same Length as my .45 Cal Maxi Hunter at .690, And of Course the TC Maxi Hunter was designed By TC to Shoot in Their Stock 1:48 Twist .45 Cals

They Drop from my Mold at .454

Here they are Reduced to .449

And here they are Reduced down to .442, Note the Red arrow is pointing at the Top of the Bearing surface i have exposed, By reducing down you can see the Bearing surface quite easily. You want to Patch EXACTLY to that Point, and no further up

Sized to .442

A few of them Short Patched

Held Good n Snug in my Calipers They finish Patch to .449 With my Particular Onion Skin paper, My stuff is the Old 25% Cotton Onion Skin. I have found .449 to be IDEAL For .450-.451 Bores, They just hold the Bore on the way Down

 

[Idaholewis]

And lastly for Comparison, here are the little bullets up against a .444-400 PP Bullet that i shoot long Range with in a Couple of my Fast Twist .45s, The Big Bullet is 1.090

 

[James Sparhawk]

I did some tinkering I have no doubt this little Bullet will shoot in a 1:48 Twist. These are Cast of Certified Pure Lead and weigh in at 260 Grains. IRONICALLY This bullet measures Exactly the same Length as my .45 Cal Maxi Hunter at .690, And of Course the TC Maxi Hunter was designed By TC to Shoot in Their Stock 1:48 Twist .45 Cals

They Drop from my Mold at .454

Here they are Reduced to .449

And here they are Reduced down to .442, Note the Red arrow is pointing at the Top of the Bearing surface i have exposed, By reducing down you can see the Bearing surface quite easily. You want to Patch EXACTLY to that Point, and no further up

Sized to .442

A few of them Short Patched

Held Good n Snug in my Calipers They finish Patch to .449 With my Particular Onion Skin paper, My stuff is the Old 25% Cotton Onion Skin. I have found .449 to be IDEAL For .450-.451 Bores, They just hold the Bore on the way Down

Thank you Lewis

 

[Jon87772]

This is an interesting project James i have a 188 Grain .45 ACP Pistol Bullet that i Bet would be good here, i have 3 different Bullets in total that i think would work well for this. The Tricky part with the 3 Bullets i have is their Size from the Mold, The Correct way to Paper Patch a Bullet is to Patch it “UP TO” Your Bore. So You need a bullet about .442-.443, I have a .442 Sizer. I will do some playing around here and see what i come up with? I don’t have a Stock 1:48 Twist .45 Cal, i have one Slow 1:66 Roundball Twist .45, all of my others are Fast, Bullet Twist Barrels

I like this one the best

Who's mold are you using for the 188 grain bullets?

 

[eekjellander]

Can u explain why a 1:48 twist does not stabilize a bullet that long, if you mind me asking. I am just trying to learn.

I can because I shoot 700yds with my Renegade , how ever thats a 1-17 Rice barrel and the exact bullet to shoot long for me is a 443 -530 gr Elliptical mold casting 20 LB pure lead-1 Lb tin /also 16-1 BACO # is JIM443530E They also sell the 9Lb onion skin to wrap it .I don't know the yardage you want to shoot but this combo works to 1000 yds + ,not by me , our long range only goes to 700yds . Everyone that shoots long uses 1 1/2F that I know of , mine is 81 grains OE 11/2 under a 0.60 poly wad . There is/was one shooter (Lewis ) on you tube shooting long super shooter shooting stock 1-48 twist and if you can find them he is amazing but not to many in his class. Most folks do a lot of research before jumping in ,there's a reason for the length of bullet requiring a 18 twist . If your talking 2-300 yd that's a hole different twist /bullet selection .I could go on but I'm tired going to bed/Ed