209 Knight Conversion vs Win 209 Primers

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MK85

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Muzzleloader: Knight MK85 - 209 System: Knight 209 Conversion kit - Primers: Win 209, Fed 209A (Blue box) - Barrel/Bore/Chamber: Clear, empty, un-obstructed, not loaded. - Breech Plug: Totally CLEAN - Primer Holders: Knight red plastic. Dry Fire: The Fed 209A's perform fine, the Win 209's self destruct as the gold primer cup is blown backwards and out of its silver rim after impact by the firing pin. I've been halfway through a box of Win's and had 2 primers that actually worked. These are OLD but had same issue when they were new. Anybody familiar with this? The answer's probably posted here somewhere but just haven't found it yet. I use Win's very favorably in all cartridge setups. Thanks!
 
I may have stumbled across the probable cause: it looks as if the firing pin may be denting the primer cup a bit too deep. I guess I could envision both a.) partial detonation and b.) mechanical destruction both happening simultaneously. Certainly, every time it happens I never hear a full audible "snap" but only a muffled one. I'm almost totally convinced.
 

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Ah well, ran across a 3rd brand of 209's - same problem, so it's not confined to one brand. Has to be something related to primer dimensions or 209 flash hole size or amount of flame. Re-Installed the #11 percussion plug with the musket cap nipple. Just going to go back to basics. If I ever find out for sure I'll post the assessment. Later on.
 
In my limited 209 testing in an MK85, I have found a 0.156" flame channel and 0.036"-0.038" orifice worked best. I used vent liners removed from my DISC that had worn to 0.036". I only used Federal 209A Primers. Using a 0.032" orifice resulted in hang fires, fail to fires, blown primers, and re-cocking of the hammer. See if this helps.
 
Original #11 Breech plug, Linear Mitutoyo's give me 0.214 & 0.204 on each end of the plug. Musket Nipple = 0.100 & 0.040 on each end. Largest number per set is that opening closest the flame source - and I'm not a machinist. But have been told there's not a set of calipers on the planet that can give it to you spot-on. Don't have anything better - not sure about the actual tool norm being linear calipers. I'll look at the 209 system tomorrow. With each system gun's been fired at least 200 times each. Having unpredictable accuracy now and accuracy just don't exist in late evening hours (54°F), barely hit a barn door twice in a row. With your info may visit a machine shop and see how sound my measurements are, then talk some more to D. Fricke at Lehigh about new plug(s) and liners. Thanks!
 
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MK85, you don't mention what powder you are using nor do you indicate what the charge/load volume/weight is with regard to bullet weight, sabot or full bore bullet. If the charge and bullets are heavy and the plunger spring is bad or weak its entirely possible that it is your problem, given that it is a plunger gun. AND if you're burning BH209 or T7 powders the gun maybe isn't designed for them.....they generate a lot of pressure.
 
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Knight #900204 bullets & 100gr PyroRS worked fine years ago. Picked up a brand new plug #900023, it measures 0.214 & 0.214. New plug overall and thread length shorter than the original. Don't plan to use it.
 
Well, I did use the new #11 plug. Works fine, but accuracy still don't exist.
 
Oh, and I also found I had primed 2 of those Fed 209A primers into FPJ's and stuck them in the wrong box. Gently deprimed those 2 and measured the lengths at 0.292 and 0.294". Win's we're 0.2975-0.3050", Brand #3 was 0.295-0.297". Exact cause of problem still not known.
 

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