280 grain ELRs

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jims

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Anyone used them with smokeless powder in their SMLs? Ask because I noticed on the package not to use them with smokeless. Know the reasons for the same?
 

Ninering62

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I have a Paramount & I started out shooting the ELR's. I think they are only rated for BH 209. I've shot them in my Accura V2 with T7fff as well. I don't as of YET have a SML, but I can tell ya this with 100% certainty - I will NOT be even considering them to shoot thru a SML. To many other MUCH better bullets out there for around the same price range. They did perform very accurately in my Paramount & they are absolutely devistating on deer. Kind regards
 

michiganmuzzy

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Wish they were available off the shelf around me. I would like to try them in my Accura or Knight or even my Renegade. But not enough to pay shipping, too.
 

Ninering62

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Wish they were available off the shelf around me. I would like to try them in my Accura or Knight or even my Renegade. But not enough to pay shipping, too.
You do know that the 280 ELR's were supposedly designed to shoot in the Paramount with ther .453 1:22 barrel right? Tell ya what, a friend just donated a pk of them to me this wk. Send me a PM with yer addy & I'll send ya half of them to try out. Kind regards
 

michiganmuzzy

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You do know that the 280 ELR's were supposedly designed to shoot in the Paramount with ther .453 1:22 barrel right? Tell ya what, a friend just donated a pk of them to me this wk. Send me a PM with yer addy & I'll send ya half of them to try out. Kind regards
yeah, i think the accura .45 is also a good match for them. pm coming.
 

ENCORE50A

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The thin light jacket for the lower BH209 pressures.
Same reason Fury has a separate blackpowder section for bullets.
 

ported45

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Anyone used them with smokeless powder in their SMLs? Ask because I noticed on the package not to use them with smokeless. Know the reasons for the same?
Too many variables. Same reason 45 Colt is loaded commercially to the lower power levels. ELR would not perform with warp speed smokeless capabilities.
However, they have been used in a moderate smokeless load and shot beautiful. Bullets are manufactured to a velocity range, not a powder type. Don't exceed the velocity window and you can expect good performance. Push it too hard and it would be like a 200 XTP pushed hard out of a smokeless and be a grenade.
 

jims

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I asked my question as in my SMLs I use some BH loads and some smokeless loads loaded to the same speeds on my chronograph. Unsure the difference in pressures/rise/runs/duration etc.
I was thinking in modest smokeless loads that the bullets might work. Have not tried them. Only hoping for input on someone that might have actual experience. I really did not want to be the pioneer.
 

GM54-120

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I think one of the guys on the SML boards tried them. 55gr of 4198 should be pretty mild in speed and pressure. IIRC that load with a 275gr BE is only around 2350fps at most. Reloder7 might also work and might make a little less peak. PBs fatten up easy so you probably dont want to whack them as hard at ignition.
 

GM54-120

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On Hanks board a guy posted about 53gr of 4198 gave almost 2300fps in a Scout conversion with the PB 280gr ELR.
Scroll down to the 2nd to last review Powerbelt ELR Muzzleloading Bullets 45 Cal 280 Grain AeroTip Pack of

If i was going to tinker with that load i would do it over a large temperature spread and check for fps swings. DIS and maybe even HIS might not be effected as much as a 209. IMO Re7 ignites easier and needs less pressure to burn correctly. Its just quite a bit dirtier than 4198. Not really a big problem if shooting sabots or loose fitting projectiles?
 
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jims

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Just an update. I tried several of the 280 grain ELRs in two of my Smokeless MLs. These loads are OK in my rifle unsure of yours. The first was in a Ruger No. 1 that has a SMI conversion and Douglas .45 barrel with a 1 in 22 twist. Normally I shoot 200 grain SSTs with Harvestor light blue sabots. They go 2846 fps with a 10 grain 4759 starter along with 50 grains of H4198.
By way of comparison out of a clean barrel with the same loading with the 280 grain ELRs the first shot went 2632 fps but was perhaps 18 inches from my normal zero to the right. No keyholing. I shot a second with 8 grains or 4759 and 50 grains of H4198, this one was near the zeroed point except about 3 inches lower than the regular SSTs loading. The speed of the ELR on the second shot was 2473. Unsure why such a variation on speed (about 160 fps) for the slight powder difference and unsure why the first shot was so far off the mark. No keyholing. I hope to test more in the future, just wanted to see if they would go bang etc. The Ruger No. 1 is strongly built and the barrel at the breech is about 1.2 inches, more like a Rem.

The second gun I shot was my daughters Savage MLII but with a Brux .45 barrel. The twist is slow, 1 in 28. I should have went faster but it is what it is and for the normal load with 200 SSTs it shoots quite well and low recoil for her. It has taken over a dozen deer for her. No real tracking.
Now the Savage is the small shank, 1.06 inch at the breech so no real robust loads shot. I shot one 280 grain ELR. 8 grains of 4759 and 50 grains of H4198. It shot at 2425 fps which is only about 100 feet slower than it shoots with the same powder load with 200 SSTs in a Harvestor sabot. The hole at 100 yards was near the zero mark except about 3 inches low. No keyholing. So I "think" the ELRs could have some potential but the 200 SSTs have served so well unsure if I would switch. Sometimes I shoot both SMLs with bare bullets sabotless but that requires a specific size for each barrel and for me sabots give more flexibility. As I now have 4 hunters it is easier for me with 4 different SMLs to use sabots or perhaps just the 45-70 in gun season.
Now my "problem" is I always want to try everything new under the sun. That is why I have more bullet combos than I would ever need and I need a note pad to just keep track of what each rifle likes. Should just thin the herd and get down to a few that are similar in nature.
Hope that helps for those that might have some interest.
 

GM54-120

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Ive mentioned it before, 4198 is not very effecient with the 200gr class of bullets. Moving upto a 250gr in the same sabot makes it WAY more efficient. Some of the chrono readings people have posted shooting the same amount of powder but with a 50gr heavier bullet proves it. Richard shot some 250gr Fury 40cals recently and the fps performance is amazing.

A quote from him....Something is going on if the heavier bullet is faster out of the same rifle on the same day. These were shot from a converted Scout v2 (HIS) and im fairly certain the load would be plenty safe in a 1" OD barrel or larger.
First off, I put one sighter down range at 100 yards and nicked the 2” dot with with a saboted 228 Pittman (all smooth blue Harvester sabots) over 60 gr. of H-4198. Next, I went to my 200 yard target and used the first Plex dot under the X hair. (did not know how much elevation was needed). It hit slight high and right. Note: I am hanging that 6 ½ lb. bag over the scope mount. Second shot in the dot…..forgot to put the bag on for the third shot and it went wide right. Bag on for the last two which made for a 1.3” group. Not too shabby for this light gun with a 9x scope. 2582 fps/16 fps ES

100 yds.

Group #2…250 (.40) Fury star with the same 60 gr. of 4198. 2661 fps/9 fps ES putting three shots in .395”
 
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jims

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GM I appreciate your input. I did not find the recoil really more with the heavier bullets. If it does not bother my daughter's I may move up in weights. The nice thing about the ELRs is the whole package is contained, no separate sabots and I can use in a variety of SMLs I think, must easier in that regard than bare bullets and exact sizing. Soft plastic is more forgiving than copper.
 

GM54-120

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While i hate the cost of the PBs, it is a viable solution assuming they handle the load you want. Ive still got 50ish PB Plat 45cal 300gr. They seemed too tight in my Pacnor but do fit my Mountaineer 1-20. Around 100gr of BH209 is about all they handle before turning inside out. If you could get them in the 1800fps range with smokeless they might do ok too?

PB also has a new 45cal 250gr AeroLite. Im guessing its WAY more fragile.
 
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