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I've done the squib loads too to foul the bore, but currently I fire three or four primers to foul the bores of any gun being loaded and not give it a second thought if the gun isn't shot within a few days, but I'm using BH209 for powder. T7 is whole different animal though and I'd be hesitant to use it to foul a bore then load to hunt and leave the hunting charge in the gun several days. I'd just bang off three or four caps, then load and go. When I shot T7 I didn't clean an unfired gun loaded for hunting unless I got into rain for an extended period or even heavy wet snow.....I'd knock the unfired load out that night and wipe out the barrel well then foul and reload. If I'd shot during the course of the day with T7 the gun got cleaned that night, then fouled and loaded.
 
I'm with Mr Tom on popping a few caps before I load up. Been doing this for decades. Fouls the barrel and it also purges the flash channel, breech area of any oils or water that might be present.
 
70gr of T7 and a 460gr is more power than the original 45-70 bp load. Nothing wimpy about it. That load is more like a 45-90 load in terms of energy.
 
Snapped some caps and hit it again. Same issue, first shot is way low. I'll find another load or sight in on the first shot.
 
Muzzleloaders are quirky at times. At least you know where the first shot hits. Like you said, you can adjust your aim accordingly for the first shot.
 
Your problem is changing bore conditions. Because of lack of bullet obturation. Try a bullet that fills the rifling more. If no excuses has alittle larger size try that. R something like real rifle engraving bullet. If u have to shoot full bore bullets. Try something that requires a short starter to get it in muzzle. It's that light load. Not slugging bullet up. Could try recoil pad maybe for your shoulder. R do your squib load. U can use any bullet for that. And like 30 grains of powder probably. I shoot no excuse bullets. But the 50 I use has .502 bore. I have to push them in with short starter. I can shoot light loads just fine. U probably have a 504 bore. Maybe larger. If your rifle has quick load muzzle your gonna have problems no matter what u do. Think you said knght rifle so u don't have that issue. Those nights had large bores for a fifty of there time I think. Where made for sabots. But shoot lead great with heavy loads. Say atleast 90 grains. Like 110 really well r 100. The squib load is a pian
But works. If your bullet just slides in with thumb r pretty easy u need enough powder to expand it on ignition to fill the rifling. R your gonna have this problem. Hope any of this helps u.
 
You could try veggie wads also. Try 1 r 2. Will help with ignition. Just a thought
 
Also u could try knurling the bullet up. This can be done with 2 files. And then use a veggie wad also. Wool does nothing in my gun. The veggie will create a slight seal. The 2 things together might help
 
It is my belief, based on information gained from this website that when Triple777 & BH209 were formulated and brought to market, the propellant manufacturers deliberately designed the breech plugs so that they were optimized for heavy loads of the propellant. Whether this resulted in those same breech plugs not being able to handle lighter loads in the same manner that real black powder can, I don't know. I think that it has more to do with the nature of how the propellant burns, once ignited, then it is entirely due to the design of the flow dynamics in the chamber of the breech plugs.
 
Also might try Hornadays new bore drivers. R federal bore locks. They will fill the bore better when the powder ignites. Might be just the ticket. I think there legal in western states but not 100% sure. It seems obvious your problem is solved when the bore is full of fouling. Soooo if u fill bore better on that first shot u should get better results. Your probably getting alot more velocity with the dirty bore . Hence higher shots. And maybe a result of the way your guns recoiling. Anything u do to help increase velocity without adding more powder should help. I have one rifle that loved .503 bullets. After many years of shooting and cleaning I noticed how bullets just went right down like nothing. Had a mould made for .506 same design bullet. Sized to .504 shot wonderful groups again. Just a thought. Diameter of bore can change over years of shooting. Just hoping to be of some help. Sure hope u get your elk. Get close, get a rest if your can and good luck.
 
Thanks for the info. I'll definitely try it again.

Just trying to get an idea on the energy and if it would work out at 100 yards.
Got out today. All the load data is the same. Started trying the teflon tape. That is the low shot. As you can see, it didn't help in my rifle. If anything, the shot is farther out. I brought the rifle in and completely cleaned it. After letting it sit about an half hour, I decided to fire a squib load with BH209. That seemed to resolve the issue.

If it stops raining by Friday I am going to foul the barrel with a few caps and test a cold shot. I have my fingers crossed it will work as I am not excited about hunting on a fouled bore. Once I decide on a method, I'll sight in on the first shot. I have always done that just never had a rifle shoot so far apart between the 1st and 2nd shot.

One more question. I am noticing a lot more fouling in the breech area compared to shooting sabots. I understand it's the nature of a plunger gun, but the difference is noticeable. The heavy conicals are new to me, is this to be expected?

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If you got a few minutes to sit between shots, I’d shoot a squib with BH209 and see how the next 3 group. I have no problem hunting on a dirty barrel. Even if you clean every night and foul every morning, not gonna hurt your gun. I shoot a fouling shot opening morning and don’t unload and clean until the last day. That’s just me though, you’ll get a million different opinions on that.
 
I believe he is shooting a knight mk85 if I'm remembering correctly. Plunger guns and blackhorn 209 isn't recommended. It might go off with a #11 primer but it just isn't to be used in a Plunger gun. If I'm wrong about this disregard. I do not believe I am though. If it's a newer model like mountaineer it's fine
 
If your recommendation is a bh209 squib. Then go to 777 hunting load I have no idea of how it would work. Never tried it. The light bh209 squib if it goes off probably would be ok. And it would have lesser corrosion problems leaving it in barrel. I've always read dont shoot bh209 in plunger guns.
 
I would think a squib load would not be a problem as you are not pushing out a bullet. The burnt powder would just blow out of the barrel.
 
Never seen it tried without some kind of a projectile. Be interesting to see if bh209 would even ignite in a plunger gun with just a wad and #11 cap r musket cap. It might, not sure thou. I have trouble getting it to go off in just the cold with some of my guns lol. And they use large magnum rifle primers. I would think it would fizzle r just barely get a burn and leave unburnt pieces of extruded stick powder stuck to the walls of the bore. Maybe not though. Be cool to find out. Without a projectile r bullet can't see how it would hurt anything. Other than make a mess. Don't know if unburt bh209 in barrel is good idea though. When he loads 777 it's gonna mix with it. Maybe not a big deal. I just try to follow manufacturer’s recommendations mostly. People r free to try what they want though. If he'd just go with a bullet that slugs up better with a light 70 grain volume charge I can't help thinking his problems would vanish. R just use a lead bullet that's a touch bigger. So it don't have to slug up as much. Bet if he had away to full form a bullet for it his problem would be solved. As it wouldn't need to obturate hardly at all. Just my thoughts.
 
Yeah i dont think BH will 'squib load' either. A few 209s oughta do the job tho.

Yea it will, with a Tight Vege Wad Pushed firmly on the powder. This is the ONLY way i was able to get BH209 to go off my 1 and only trip out with it, my 1/8” Wool Felt Wads was a Waste of time, I was unable to get even 1 of them to go off
 
I have done squibs with 5 grains of 209 powder and used paper toweling packed down tight on the charge and fired pronto. Works fine.
 

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