45/40 saboted

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redear

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Just wanted to start a new thread seeing as we got into the saboted stuff on the bear creek thread. I am new to this in a sml 45 cal scout conversion. I have both types of 4198 powder and the His ignition system with the large magnum rifle primer. I may order some fury bullets too. I see he has the regular crimped nose 40 cal in 225 and 250gr. and he has the ballistic tipped in a 250 which is a 2p model which I think means it has a thinner jacket. I may very well take a 250 yd shot one day as I only hunt crop fields etc. I like the value of fury's crimp nosed bullets.
 
Just asking..... but why even consider a bullet requiring a sabot?
I believe I've shot every 45cal Fury bullet, even testing some that were never marketed. I can assure you, you won't have a problem with any of them at 250yds when going bullet to bore smokeless.
 
encore50a, I didn't really want to even try it as I had tried it before with the smokepole guns and didn't care for it. I have been shooting fury full bore bullets, parker BE's and a few barnes TEZ's out of this gun and I did have some good groups initially with 275 gr BE's, fury's, and barnes with 56gr of 4198 but the more I shot it the larger the groups got. I think I had some fouling up towards the muzzle and so I cleaned it real good. I'm still not back to my original few groups success. I'm wondering if my gun is just a tad tighter up towards the muzzle, but I'm not sure because when loading that is where the rifling slightly cuts down into the bullet. I have read several times that a barrel that is tighter up front will be better for saboted bullets. And so I am curious about my gun being as I haven't tried but so many bullets through it. Even if I get the full bore bullets shooting tight groups I don't want to go past 60 gr of 4198. so I don't know that I will end up hunting with the sabots at this point, I may very well be hunting with the full bore's, whichever performs the best.
 
when I was shooting the full bore bullets, fury's etc. I was shooting 56gr of 4198 and doing ok with the 275 gr bullets, but when I went and tried 59 gr of h4198 my groups opened up. I only have maybe 60 shots on this gun so far so I'm in the let me see mode right now.
 
encore50a, I didn't really want to even try it as I had tried it before with the smokepole guns and didn't care for it. I have been shooting fury full bore bullets, parker BE's and a few barnes TEZ's out of this gun and I did have some good groups initially with 275 gr BE's, fury's, and barnes with 56gr of 4198 but the more I shot it the larger the groups got. I think I had some fouling up towards the muzzle and so I cleaned it real good. I'm still not back to my original few groups success. I'm wondering if my gun is just a tad tighter up towards the muzzle, but I'm not sure because when loading that is where the rifling slightly cuts down into the bullet. I have read several times that a barrel that is tighter up front will be better for saboted bullets. And so I am curious about my gun being as I haven't tried but so many bullets through it. Even if I get the full bore bullets shooting tight groups I don't want to go past 60 gr of 4198. so I don't know that I will end up hunting with the sabots at this point, I may very well be hunting with the full bore's, whichever performs the best.
Depending on how you size them, the initial loading is normally tighter at the muzzle. Are you sizing them to a fouled bore or clean? Swabbing between rounds?
Might try dropping down closer to the minimum charge suggested by the builder, then work it up by a single grain.
 
As regards shooting without a sabot. They can shoot accurately without question. The reason I do not do it much is there are now 4 of us shooting SMLs. When I shot without a sabot I had a combination of smooth formed dies, full formed dies, some out of the box bullets would just fit without sizing until the barrel fouled. Then each barrel required a different size (by just a bit) bullet. I needed a flow chart to keep track of everything.
Now for the most part we just use out 45s with sabots. Plenty deer accurate.
If I was only shooting one SML I might well shoot without a sabot but redear I understand why you are doing what you are doing.
I have never exceeded 60 grains of 4198 in any of my loads and that tends to be with the lighter bullets or a duplex load under that total.
You should be able to get a good load, there is a wealth of information out there on the 45 loads but just a word of caution, use a witness mark, don't get distracted and keep in mind that some barrels are much thinner in the breech area than others such that I use less powder than some of the big boomers do nor do I need those huge speeds.
 
thanks guys! I have been sizing the full bore bullets to a fouled bore. I have cleaned my barrel real good, butch's bore shine and jb paste etc and I had carbon buildup in the breech plug on the powder side, I cleaned that up too. I was using 4198 powder. I have since bought a bottle of imr 4227 and I understand that I would need to drop down in charge weight with that powder. I have the His ignition cva scout conversion. yeah I'm not interested in any hot loads. I have been reading all I can on this forum and another one, there are several very experienced guys, and I am taking notes on possible loads to try. I have a bright green witness mark on my ramrod and I check it twice before each shot. I have my own place to shoot on a farm and no other people hanging around to distract me.
 
N120 burns super clean buts its also super expensive and hard to find. Not quite a 1-1 replacement for 4198. You would use less to get the same speed but you would still get higher peak pressure even at the same speed. Using LRMP and 56gr of 4198 you could probably get very close using 50-52gr of N120. In a Scout i would not go over 55gr with a 300gr bullet. Thats roughy a 2300fps load sabotless. 56gr and a 200gr sabot is over 2600fps iirc.
 
good info here! I didn't see evidence of great grouping with the 300 fury star tips in the few shots I took with 56gr 4198 out of my gun, one more heavier bullet at 280gr. for the bear creek .451 I wish the wind would lay down some, it has really been kicking near about every day and night lately. too much to do any real meaningful shooting.
 
this evening I knurled some 220sst x .40 to try next time I go out, I also ordered 50 each of the fury 225gr and 250gr. star tips with the crimped nose. can't beat that stimulus money, lol. I'm doing a much better job of knurling this time around,. I'm getting dennis to knurl the fury's before I get them though. Just to plump them up a little and make sure they don't slip in the sabot.
 
I got a package from Fury bullets today containing two bags of bullets. 40 cal. 225 and 250 star tip crimp nosed bullets which I had ordered knurled, which on these is just a slight texture to grip the sabot. The 250's look extra mean with their extra length to width ratio. something to play with next time out.
 
send me your email and I will try to send a pic from my phone. I am the biggest computer dummie of all time.
 
the 250 is a little long in the sabot, and the 225 looks like it was made for the light blue sabot, but I think I have read where people are getting the 250's to shoot very well. when putting these bullets in the light blue sabots they will stay up off the bottom about 1/32 until you load them in your gun. someone send me an email or phone number and I'll send this pic I took.
 
I shoot the 250 star tip in a black harvester Sabot,, only bullet I will use now in my CVA Accura mountain rifle, I shoot the 225 and the 250 40 cal in light blue sabots in my 1 and 20 twist, the 250 40 cal will shoot a half-inch group out of my 1 in 20 twist, I've also had good success shooting 40 cal cutting edge bullets in light blue sabots with black horn.
 
mntmonkey, great info there! I'm trying to send a pic to buck and doe hunter from my phone to post of the 40 cals in sabots but have never sent a pic with this phone before, might have to see if the wife can help.
 
I sure like having a good bore rider load and a good sabot load,,we're fortunate we have a lot of bullets to choose from.
 
Posting pic of the Fury .40 cal 225gr and 250gr Star Tips in a Harvester light blue sabot, thanks redear!
UzkENxx.jpg
 
they will sit down the rest of the way in the sabots if ya push down on them, can just see some light under the bullet if not pushing down or loading them in the barrel. the bullets in front look bigger but they are the same bullets, just closer to the camera.
 
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