45-70 conversion with N110

[D55]

Correct you will blow a sabot before reaching dangerous pressure, My guess 35-36 will be tops for a sabot. You will never get the speed out of N110 that you would out of 4198 or N120 but with the light bullets you aren't going to be reaching but 200yds maybe a little farther.

 

[D55]

Teslong has affordable borescopes. If you have Amazon prime you can get free shipping.

 

[qwakattak]

I would think this is a 300yrd gun easily with an accurate load under the right conditions. 200 or 225gr bullets are plenty for deer at that range when launched at 2500fps.

 

[qwakattak]

Made it out to range again. Shot 35gr N110 with 200SST and light blue sabots. Velocity was 2455fps with 23E.S. Accuracy was good and sabots still look perfect.

 

[qwakattak]

D55, I ordered one of those Teslong borescopes off of Amazon. Looks pretty slick. I don't know if I'll even bother trying 36gr, I'd be satisfied with what I saw with 35gr. My goal was 2500fps and I'm close.

 

[baddog]

I found their mirror set helpful to keep it centered in the bore for larger caliber barrels .
https://www.amazon.com/Teslong-Borescope-Diameter-22-308-38-50-Calibers/dp/B085XXZQK2

 

[ported45]

Fought the mud and made it to the range. Shot 33gr N110 behind a 200gr SST with light blue 40/45 sabots. No wad. Velocity was 2375fps with 17fps E.S. Fouling shot was an inch low right, next 2 shots in the same hole. Sabots look perfect. Recoil was noticeably less than when shooting 59gr H4198.

I shot the same 33 grain load and got 2356 fps, so same ballpark. Did not get to try it out on deer, but flattens coyotes!

 

[billyboy*]

Thanks for info on the Teslong Borescope

 

[mnoland30]

D55, I have a question. If you gas cut the threads at the end of the chamber, couldn't you just use more powder? I wouldn't think the gas cutting would matter if that part of the barrel just held powder. I'm curious if you've tried that? I have a conversion, but we can't use smokeless to hunt here in NM. The only problem I have is that when running a patch, the lip at the chamber sometimes catches a patch.

 

[D55]

Not the threads gas cutting but the actual barrel breech end and it progressed 6" forward. I was shooting with a DI plug that only has 1" of threads using 40gr of N110 with a 275xpb and a wad. That was a very hot load with N110 and adding more was not an option. Guys who have the ASG plugs which have 1-1/2" of threads don't have the powder column issue but as far as I know ASG does not offer DI. I don't use N110 anymore in these kind of sml's.

 

[billyboy*]

Sorry about your barrel I would have Never thought the Erosion would be that far up into your rifling Yeah the powder column can’t cover the 6”. Thanks for informing us (Bore Scope Reveals)
Also, Hank makes a Replacement ASG Direct Ignition Breech Plug.

 

[D55]

Yes but the threads are different and when I had mine done he didn't offer that plug. I just use different powders now.

 

[mnoland30]

Wow! 6" up your barrel. Who would have thought? I assume you started looking because your accuracy fell off. I wish we could use smokeless. The muzzleloader business is a racket. When I was young, it was the cheap way to shoot, now you could almost buy Weatherby ammo for what a muzzleloader bullet costs. I purchased cars that cost less than a 5 lb. can of BH 209. Now I'm giving away my age.

 

[D55]

I bought a bore scope and cleaned the barrel that's when I discovered it.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

A borescope is one of the best (and worst) things ive bought for MLing.

 

[bluedog]

Has this thread made an argument for using a 'longer' breech plug in a 45-70 conversion rather than a 'shorter' one? Say....the ASG version over the Hankins version for conversions, so that the left over chamber powder area will not be a concern when lighter or smaller powder charges are used?

 

[D55]

I would say yes bluedog if someone is wanting to shoot low volume powder charges go with the ASG. I will stick with 50+gr powder charges of ones that will permit and use the N110 for my pistol(44mag).

 

[qwakattak]

I went to the 200 yard range today with my 35gr loads of N110 and tested the 200gr SST and the 225gr Pittman Accumax with the light blue sabots. Accuracy was comparable, right about 2" at 200yrds. For kicks I fired 2 loads of 36.0gr of N110 with the 200gr SST's. They landed right in with the 35gr loads but they measured 1.0" center to center which I thought was tremendous. The Accumax rounds averaged 2363FPS, the 200gr SST's averaged 2428FPS with 35.0gr and 2465fps with 36.0gr. Velocity was taken 21ft from the muzzle. The Accumax bullets being .402" are a bit of a struggle to load, the 200gr SST's load easily.

 

[LBAhunter]

Also, Hank makes a Replacement ASG Direct Ignition Breech Plug.

Has this thread made an argument for using a 'longer' breech plug in a 45-70 conversion rather than a 'shorter' one? Say....the ASG version over the Hankins version for conversions, so that the left over chamber powder area will not be a concern when lighter or smaller powder charges are used?

I would think the longer breech plug would be more versatile. You could use more powders and not have to worry about the powder column. Just my 2 cents.

 

[SW]

There seems to be quite a lot of concern about blowing sabots, in particular, HLBS. I believe they can be used at pressures and speeds well beyond most people’s expectations. I’ve never had a problem at even 38-39g VV110/195B or 200 SST in 209 ignited rifles. Likely less in LRMPs.

If the barrel is rough, lap it! Lightly knurl bullets, use a wad, preferably a dry Maine wool wad, allow cooling after the 2nd shot, and don’t worry about sabot failure.

Concerning pressure. Powders burn the cleanest, have the least temp sensitivity, etc when used at their design operating pressures. Always change to a faster powder and get a load within its operating pressure if wanting a reduced load. 17g Blue Dot/195/200g bullet is much better for a reduced load than 25g of H4198(A terrible load) .
Stay in a powder’s design presdures.

My opinion, using H4198 56-60g in a 24” barrel is far less desirable than 35-37g VV110 for saboted bullets. 10g VV110/50 H4198 is a great 2700+ load.

Additionally, bore sized 250-300g bullets out of a break open with 60-65g H4198 - WHY? For what? Recoil, poorer trajectory, why? A 228g AccuMax or 250g Fury or 200SST or 195B at 2400-2500+ out of a sabot will be as accurate, less recoil by far, and every bit as lethal and with a much flatter trajectory.

I have an acquaintance (crossbow board) who bought a package deal converted Scout. He was having trouble sizing bullets, getting good accuracy, etc. He even missed a deer <100 yards because of some mishap. I had recommended (he had 4759) HLBSs, wool wad 35-38g 4759 and a 195 knurled Barnes/200SST (all anticipated shots <150 yards).

I heard from a mutial friend that this person sold the Scout and went back to smokey MLers, since they’re “easier to use”. Even though I own and shoot exclusively 40 cal MLers now, sabotless only, of course, I believe that 45 cal saboted shooting is seriously underrate! A 228 Pittman, 250 Fury shot with a VV120 load or H4198 (26” barrel) with a HLBS/Wad can reach out to 300+ yards with excellent reliability, accuracy, great trajectory, and comparatively light recoil.

Just some thoughts after 22 years of shooting smoke free.

OOPs!
Please excuse this somewhat inappropriate placement of this post. I understand that Hank’s 9/16” BP has an extension to fill the chamber.