45-70 conversion with N110

[GM54-120]

I wish they still made SR4759. Its a really nice powder for moderate 45cal sabot loads. I dont think i ever blew a sabot even with 39gr and a 200gr bullet. After about 40gr i saw some indications it was getting rougher on sabots but still showed promise as high as 42gr. Wads were probably all that would have been needed to get to around that load without any issues. Speeds exceeding 2400fps were quite possible and over 2500fps with probably just a little tinkering. Not as clean as N110 but it seemed to be very temp stable also.

 

[bluedog]

My standard load in a CVA Apex 45-70 conversion was 43 grains 4759 w/ B195, HBS, 209 ignition in ASG plug. That load shot great, no sabot failure, approx 2,500 fps, killed bang-flop! I ran out of B195s and ordered a new batch of bullets. I could never get the new bullets to shoot due to repeated sabot failures, even down to 38 grains of 4759. I finally gave up and switched to Fury 225s, HBS, and H-4198, life is now very good again!

 

[qwakattak]

SW, your speaking my language. I kept thinking why do I have to shoot a 275 or 300gr bullet at a deer. Elk, OK, I get it. If, I wanted to shoot 500 yards, OK, I get it. But for 300 yards and under a 200gr bullet should be more than enough to get the job done on deer with a lot less recoil.

Here in Nebraska, we can't deer hunt with a 40cal MZ so if I want to shoot 40cal bullets, for their lighter weight and better BC, I have to use sabots. Also, I'm getting the same velocity out of 36gr of N110 as I was getting out of 59gr of H4198. That's 23gr that isn't part of the recoil equation which again means less recoil and I can tell the difference. This 36gr N110 load is a creampuff to shoot. I've been told that the N110 load will be less temperature sensitive as well. I haven't done enough testing to have an opinion on that yet but it all just seems to add up to a win, win, win.

 

[SW]

There are flat based and slightly curved based 195B. We want the flat based. The curved base will still shoot in sabots. Knurl fairly well, use a this 40 cal wad in the sabot and a thick Maine wool wad between the sabot and powder. When ordering straight from Barnes specify the flat based versions. They’ve been down this road before.

N110 is the least temperature sensitive powder, when shot with adequate pressure, there is, as well as the cleanest. Its just about the perfect powder for saboted 45/40 shooting. Knurl, size if needed, use Maine wool wads and HLBSs.

I confess, I shoot bore sized 40s (have 2 40s and hopefully the 3rd and final tomorrow, in the mail). However, on the 1 remaining 45, I shoot sabots/various 40 cal bullets just for testing.

 

[SW]

Some of the newer 40 cal bullets are 0.402” while the CEBs , 200 SSTs, 195 Barnes are 0.400”.
Likely few if any want to spend $160++ for a 40 cal , adj die to resize 402s down to fit in sabots/45c barrels.
If the 402, such as a Pittman 225/228, or heavier or Fury 250 is too tight for your barrel, there is an alternative.
Get a fixed Lee sizing die. For about $28, you can get a 0.399“, or a 0.400” or a 0.401” die.
So, if the 402 is too tight, try a 400 (40 xtp, SST, 195Bs), if it’s a bit loose even when knurled, then you know a 401 might be good. If its ideal, a 0.400 (Fury) or 0.399” (Pittman) would likely work. Furys have no springback. None! Pittmans have some springback - might run thru 3-4 times.
Just some thoughts from someone who shoots 40 cal bullets whether shooting 40 or 45 cals.

 

[qwakattak]

I'm shooting 200gr SST's and 225gr Pittman Accumax's. Also got 225gr Fury's so I got plenty to choose from. Had good luck killing deer quick with the 200gr SST's. Haven't used a wad yet and likely won't crank up the powder charge enough to need them. 36gr N110 gets me about where I wanted to be with no sabot damage. May not try anything hotter as word seems to be that after 36gr sabots start to go.

 

[qwakattak]

Interesting about the fixed sizing die for $28. Never heard of that before. May get one.

 

[D55]

If you go with a fixed die it will most likely need to be .449 for jacketed bullets because of spring back. Jacketed come out of the .449 @ .4505. Lead and copper solids don't spring back in my experience. I had Lee make me a .449 die a few years back and it was $58 because it is a custom size to them also they don't make the sizes into the ten thousandth increment. There are other die mfg. out there though. I use my adjustable dies most of the time but I never change the adjustments after initial setting for each bullet as it is a pita to get back to the correct sizing. the indicator marks on Hankins and Swinglock dies do not give repeatable results per the marking once they have been changed that has been my experience anyway so I set it for a particular bullet and leave it there. I have a different die for the others I shoot.

 

[qwakattak]

D55, I think I'd be looking for a .399 or .400 die so that I can make .402 bullets load easier.

 

[D55]

gotcha

 

[bluedog]

Good luck on finding a .399 or .400 Lee die, I could not find one. The .401 is a standard size and available but suspect the .399 and .400 are special order items now. A .402 bullet run thru a .401 may load ok but if still tight the Harvestor crush rib 45/40 sabot may be an option.

 

[SW]

I’ve had my smaller ones for a while now. I think I did special order. Quite sure I did but the cost was no more.

 

[qwakattak]

OK, thanks