.45 vs .50 caliber ?

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Do you find that 75gr or 80gr is too much for these bullets? (I own the same bullets/sabots & will be using BH209 also)
That is about right for the Barnes and maybe use the Harvester light blue sabot. You wont even phase that Barnes with any max recommended load in a CVA. It will blow through a deer like butter. The 40cal XTP though is somewhat fragile with loads of 90gr BY VOLUME. So around 56gr by weight its gunna pancake pretty hard. Shoot it roughly 1800fps or a bit less and keep shots in the boiler room.

BTW look at the 195gr Lehigh 40s. Very nasty bullet because of the controlled fragmentation but still penetrates great.
https://sskfirearms.lehighdefense.c...g-lead-free-hunting-muzzleloader-bullets.html
https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/417686-lehigh-control-fracture-195g-bullet.html
 
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Before Thompson/Center introduced the .45 caliber & .50 caliber Hawken rifles to the U.S. market, along with packages of ready-to-shoot Maxi-Ball projectiles in both calibers; anyone that got involved with muzzleloading automatically knew that casting their own balls/bullets was going to be a mandatory part of the sport.

Fast forward to the present day, and there has been a complete paradigm shift as far as ready-to-shoot projectiles is concerned.

Swaged balls are available in dozens of calibers.

Cast & sized lead conicals are available from multiple manufacturers.

Plastic sabots, primarily available in .50 caliber for shooting. 45 caliber bullets dominate the market as the .50 caliber inline rifle has become the standard, at least here in the United States. There are literally hundreds of different factory .45 caliber bullets to choose from. Ranging from jacketed pistol bullets, all the way to monolithic brass & copper bullets designed specifically for long distance, inline, muzzleloading rifles.

One can shoot a bullet weighing as little as 150 grains, all the way past 600 grains, in a .50 caliber rifle, assuming that the rate of twist is compatible with the weight bullet one wants to shoot. And, that the shooter is willing to deal with the accompanying recoil that heavy bullets bring to the table.

Since the vast majority of big game animals shot in the United States are killed at distances under 60 yards, the muzzleloading caliber chosen only makes a difference if the hunter desires to utilize his muzzleloading rifle in the exact same manner as he would a centerfire hunting rifle.

If a muzzleloading hunter wants the ability to kill big game animals out at distances up to, say 250-400 yards, then a high performance, high velocity, muzzleloading bullet is going to be a necessity. Along with a very good piece of glass sitting atop the action/barrel.

It goes without saying, that having 100% confidence in one's ability to make such shots, is a requirement. Sufficient practice to obtain such confidence, and continued practice to maintain one's confidence is mandatory.

This is where the choice of caliber starts to leave the realm of the practical, and moves into the philosophical.

For myself, and I am just speaking for myself here, I do not own my muzzleloading rifles & pistols so that I can mimic my abilities with the centerfire rifles & pistols that I have shot over the past 50 years.

I chose to get involved with muzzleloading because of a love of early American history, particularly the longhunters.

As a result, my rifles thus far have been 3 different flintlock longrifles, one .45 caliber, one .50 caliber, and one .62 caliber. All three had barrels measuring at least 40" long. Weights were between 7 pounds, and 9.5 pounds.

All three locks were large Siler flintlocks, assembled and tuned by each of the three builders. All three flintlocks had very fast, and totally reliable ignition. With proper precautions taken, nothing short of a hard rain would cause any of the three locks to misfire.

My loading procedures, which included making sure that the flint was always sharp, wiping the face/edge of the flint before every shot, and using a copper wire vent pick to pick/loosen the main powder charge in the barrel through the touch hole, every single time just prior to priming the locks pan; ensured that hangfires/slow ignition were so rare as to be virtually nonexistent.

In reality,
the .45 caliber longrifle was capable, with a 0.445" diameter patched ball loaded over 70 grains of fffg black powder, of killing any big game animal that I ever intended to hunt out to a range of 100 yards. Could I take a quartering shot through the front shoulder blade of a whitetail deer, and expect that 132.1 grain pure lead ball to penetrate into the vitals for a 100% killing shot? Absolutely not!!! But, broadside shots at 100 yards, and expect a 100% killing shot? Absolutely yes!!!

The .50 caliber longrifle was more capable than the. 45 caliber longrifle. The .62 caliber longrifle, with a 0.615" diameter patched ball weighing 348.7 grains, was/is capable of killing any big game animal in North America, from any angle, out to 100 yards, with complete confidence.

If I was going to choose a modern muzzleloading inline rifle as my primary hunting weapon, then I would want it to be equipped with a 4140CM steel, hard black nitride finished, .45 caliber barrel, with 0.004" deep square bottom grooves and a 1:14" rate of twist.

The 1:14 rate of twist, which many members here will scoff at, and say is too fast of a twist; will stabilize bore riding lead conicals weighing in excess of 600 grains, should one ever wish to shoot such heavy bullets.

This 1:14" twist will also stabilize the heaviest .40 caliber copper jacketed bullets from manufacturers such as Pittman, and others. Most of these bullets weigh approximately 300 grains, and measure almost 1.5" long. The Pittman Accumax 303 grain .40 caliber bullet measures 1.495" long, and has both a sectional density, and a ballistic coefficient that is off the charts, compared to. 45 caliber bullets.

All that is needed is for a manufacturer to step up to the plate with a .45 caliber, high velocity, muzzleloading sabot that will accept the longest of the. 40 caliber muzzleloading bullets. The current light blue .45 caliber sabot for .40 caliber bullets from Harvester will only accept bullets that max out at approximately 1.340" long.
 
If you got a wild hair to shoot HUGE 40s just buy a 40 in 1-14. You are yanking your chain with a 45cal that is that fast and HOPING someone makes a better sabot some day. The sabot wont just have to be longer, it will have to be stronger too. A 45 1-20 or 1-18 will shoot almost anything that is available today and for the most part a 1-20 will out shoot the 1-18 with sabots with the upper end loads.

Once you get much over .200 sectional density using a jacketed bullet your chance of full penetration on deer sized game goes way up. Its all about construction from that point. And BC is meaningless unless playing the long range game so upper end loads would be the goal.

The Fury 240gr has a SD of .221 and a claimed BC of .360 at 2500ish fps IIRC. It fits and shoots in current sabots plus its a bonded bullet. Nothing Pittman offers is bonded and the jackets are thicker for SML loads. So unless you know some way to get a Pittman moving fast enough with BH209 in sabots i would not be using them unless using his lightest bullet.
 
InterArms or InvestArms made a 1-24 54cal sidelock. Cabelas sold them as Sporter Carbine Hawkins rifles. They were pretty but frankly thats faster than needed for a 54cal. A Rem700ML 54cal 1-28 with the right mods will shoot pretty much anything your shoulder can handle. That would include 600gr conicals. I got a ton of 54x50 red sabots. Ive shot some brutal loads of BH209 and a Rem 385gr CLHP with them. If Rem had not quit making that bullet i would have kept looking for a 700ML in 54cal just to shoot some thumper loads.

No one really makes a cool 50cal bullet anymore that will work in sabots. Hawks could probably make some but other than that its just the Fury's made for sabotless.
I have a rem700 in 54. The Rem 385 CLHP and 110gV of BH209 is how I joined the Club of Crimson Crescent. I stalked up on a doe and got into the kneeling position (and crept up on the old steel weaver scope). I pulled the trigger and watched her buck run and fall. It wasn't until I was field dressing her that I noticed blood dripping on my boots and on my arm, I just thought I was wiping sweat from my brow. LOL I have about 400 of those bullets left.
 
Yes its a real nasty bullet. Far more than is needed for deer. Im not 100% sure but Rem might still offer it in some slug gun ammo. I know they quit selling them for reloading years ago. Guys shooting 50s sabotless might have luck with them if they can get the sizing right.
 
Yes its a real nasty bullet. Far more than is needed for deer. Im not 100% sure but Rem might still offer it in some slug gun ammo. I know they quit selling them for reloading years ago. Guys shooting 50s sabotless might have luck with them if they can get the sizing right.
that would be the core lock ultra slug ammo. All the bullets I bought were repackaged from Midway years ago.
 
Tho' I still have one .32 original percussion half stock, I sold my Dixie southern mountain rifle .32 after messing with cleaning the tiny bore in that long barrel for a year. Present SMR is a flint .50 - much easier to load & clean. Same length barrel, but much easier to load and clean. Mostly use patched round balls, just because that's what I've done for 50 years, not because of the "science". Even rough-as-a-cob originals digest the PRB's with varying degrees of accuracy out to 80 yards or so (my personal limit for shooting at critters) with open sights.
 
Im not familar with a solid copper Hornady that frags. Im familar with a Lehigh Controlled Fracturing that is quite lethal for deer and elk. As a matter of fact the only Hornady mono copper im aware of for MLs is the Monoflex and ive never seen anyone post about fragmentation issues. Even if you did blow all the petal off i bet it still weighs in over 200gr. Ive done the same thing with a Barnes 45LC 225gr XPB. Shot it at 2300fps+ and blew the petals off. The bullet still weighed slightly over 200gr and its extremely lethal on deer.

Same bullet design in the Hornady 45-70 ammo at over 2000fps. Same weight as the 250gr Monoflex ML bullet. 5 jug penetration and explosive expansion sure looks fine to me.


I am sorry to admit, I got really mixed up on this. My friend had a bad hunting experice with ammo and it was not ML but slugs. That ammo used copper bullets. Then there was another group of guys at the club who was telling me the FTX were unreliable and to use barnes EZT. Also that Hornady xtp (hollow pt) was ok. I got experience confused with what I though was common knowledge. I got to man up and admit it.
 
NP, like i said you can blow petals off bullets like Barnes or the Monoflex. The tissue trauma that creates is huge and the solid copper base just keeps going on through. Most guys wont ever shoot them that fast but some sure can. Its actually not that hard in a modern inline shooting the 44Mag or 45LC Barnes 225gr XPBs. You can get them moving way faster than the round they were intended to be reloaded in.
 
I have a rem700 in 54. The Rem 385 CLHP and 110gV of BH209 is how I joined the Club of Crimson Crescent. I stalked up on a doe and got into the kneeling position (and crept up on the old steel weaver scope). I pulled the trigger and watched her buck run and fall. It wasn't until I was field dressing her that I noticed blood dripping on my boots and on my arm, I just thought I was wiping sweat from my brow. LOL I have about 400 of those bullets left.
Same thing happened to me. I put a tourniquet around my neck to stop the bleeding. After a couple hours I came to and realized my gear and truck were missing... I learned my lesson.
 
Im not familar with a solid copper Hornady that frags. Im familar with a Lehigh Controlled Fracturing that is quite lethal for deer and elk. As a matter of fact the only Hornady mono copper im aware of for MLs is the Monoflex and ive never seen anyone post about fragmentation issues. Even if you did blow all the petal off i bet it still weighs in over 200gr. Ive done the same thing with a Barnes 45LC 225gr XPB. Shot it at 2300fps+ and blew the petals off. The bullet still weighed slightly over 200gr and its extremely lethal on deer.

Same bullet design in the Hornady 45-70 ammo at over 2000fps. Same weight as the 250gr Monoflex ML bullet. 5 jug penetration and explosive expansion sure looks fine to me.

I've Been thinking a lot about the CF bullets that I've never shot before. Intriguing to say the least. My plan is to shoot several of my 50's and just experiment (play around). I'm thinking the Z5 and the ultra Lite maybe even the Redemption. My three favorites.
 
The 50cal Lothar Walther barrel on what used to be my UF shot excellent, but it wouldn't hold a candle to a fast twist 45cal, which is why I don't own it anymore. I'm not saying I'm DONE with 50cal rifles, but I would never intentionally purchase another expecting extreme accuracy. Actually, according to my wife I'm likely DONE purchasing new rifles LOL
Speaking of Mrs. Encore50A, how's she feeling these days
next time use a locking tourniquet, we won't have to worry about blood loss then.
Do you think it'll bring in the coyotes?
 
Speaking of Mrs. Encore50A, how's she feeling these days

Thanks for asking...........

Her spirit is good, there's absolutely zero pain but, they can't get her knee to bend beyond 70 degrees no matter what the PT's do. The PT contacted the surgeon, who we see tomorrow, and he wants her in a brace that basically forces her knee to bend over time. She's already been warned that it'll be uncomfortable but, its necessary.
She's doing more here at home of what she can do and can take care of her own needs. She completes all the exercises that the PT want done daily and normally does 3X more. She'll be in a wheel chair much longer than she'd like. Long road yet but, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
 

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