.54 Cal Stock 1:48 Twist Test #2 (Lyman Plains Bullet)

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Idaholewis

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It was a Beautiful Day today, I grabbed the Ole BONE STOCK 1:48 Twist TC Renegade and Headed out for Accuracy Test #2, The last time out with This Rifle i had a Stock 1:48 Twist 54 Cal TC Hawken Barrel in the Stock, Today was an OLD Pre Warning .54 Cal TC Renegade Barrel that i bought from Ed Mehlig



First up was the BIG 655 Grain Paper Patch Bullet, Just Because :) It didn’t shoot to Darn Bad! Kicked like a MULE Though
rU7jB3hl.jpg

D2gbi0Ml.jpg


3 Shot Group, 655 Grain Paper Patch
nMvRYHgl.jpg


Then Came the Lyman Plains, at 460 Grains, Cast of Certified Pure Lead
VjBAAI2l.jpg


Typical Lyman Plains, These Bullets Shoot in EVERYTHING i have put them through
fyNgGCRl.jpg
 
Very nice Lewis, can you tell me a little more about the Lyman Plains Bullet. Length and how much you sized it for both the Hawken and Renegade barrels.
 
Very nice Lewis, can you tell me a little more about the Lyman Plains Bullet. Length and how much you sized it for both the Hawken and Renegade barrels.

Saxton, They measure .85 long (Both the .50 and .54) They are a Tapered ML Bullet, The .54 is like .539-.540 Base, The Forward “Driving Band” is .548

If i were Planning a Hunt with these, and they were Cast of PURE Lead, I would not Size them, I would Want that Extra “Grip” to the Bore to insure the Bullet Stayed firmly Put on the Powder. Since i Mostly Target Shoot, I prefer to Size them Closer to my Bore Diameter, At the Bench there is simply no Reason to Shove on Bullets, I only do that when i am Preparing a Rifle to Hunt.
 
I continue to marvel at your results. I have the exact same renegade with 1:48 twist. The T/C maxi ball and Hunter don't group good at all. I don't cast my own bullets so what would be an over the counter equivalent of the Lyman plain bullet that I could try.
Thanks
 
Saxton, They measure .85 long (Both the .50 and .54) They are a Tapered ML Bullet, The .54 is like .539-.540 Base, The Forward “Driving Band” is .548

If i were Planning a Hunt with these, and they were Cast of PURE Lead, I would not Size them, I would Want that Extra “Grip” to the Bore to insure the Bullet Stayed firmly Put on the Powder. Since i Mostly Target Shoot, I prefer to Size them Closer to my Bore Diameter, At the Bench there is simply no Reason to Shove on Bullets, I only do that when i am Preparing a Rifle to Hunt.

Lewis,
Have you looked at the "POPCORN TIN FLAKES " that Rotometals sells by the pound?

I was considering ordering a pound of it to try a 1:80 alloy, or 1:60 alloy for the 395 grain, .50 caliber Lyman Plains bullet. I want to start casting with this mold without having to size for the Optima V2 pistol when it finally arrives back in my hands later in the summer.

I spoke with DOC White on the phone this past Thursday, and he assured me that with the dual pistol-gripped Javelina stocks that he is fashioning; the single point sling wrapped around the left shoulder, and attached to the strong hand pistol grip; plus the MZ-REX 2 muzzle brake; I should easily be able to control the pistol with what CVA considers a maximum bullet weight for the pistol. Shooting 80-90 grain real black powder charges, or their substitute equivalents.

What are your thoughts on a 1:80, lead/tin alloy Lyman Plains bullet that is not sized? Would it adhere better to the barrel's walls than the same bullet in pure lead?

Edit:
If I purchase the 99.999% pure lead, 5 pound bars from Rotometals, then a 1:80 tin/lead alloy would require exactly 1 oz. of the POPCORN TIN FLAKES.

5 pounds × 454 grams/lb = 2,270g
2,270g ÷ 80:1% ratio = 28.375g
28.375g = 1 ounce
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have learned from 3 of These Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels that they are EXTREMELY Capable, and then Some. I do NOT believe for 1 Second that i have 3 Fluke Barrels, I whole heartedly believe that all of these Old TC Barrels Will Shoot Just like this, you simply have to Feed them Correctly, And do your Part of Course.

I will say that I believe 1 of the MOST IMPORTANT Parts to getting the Most out of these 1:48 Twist Barrels is PURE LEAD, And i mean a KNOWN Source of “Certified PURE LEAD. If the Lead has ANY Hardness in it, I believe Accuracy will Suffer with these 1:48s, My GM LRH Fast Twist Bullet Barrels on the other Hand will Shoot any of the Well known/Used Alloys Well, I have Even Shot Wheel Weight Hard Lead in my LRH Barrels with GREAT LUCK, But that WON’T Happen in these 1:48 Twists!!

Back when i first Started in ML, I tried HARD LEAD Paper Patched, 9 to 9.5 BHN in my Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels, TOTAL DISASTER!! I couldn’t have Hit a Volkswagon Bus 2 Times in a Row, unless it was an Accident, That’s NO JOKE! I simply didn’t understand? I felt like Lead was Lead, And a Muzzleloader Should Shoot Any Form of Lead Equally well? I was Wrong, VERY WRONG! I Don’t remember trying Hard Lead Grease Groove Bullets back then? I believe it was Only Paper Patch? And that was back when i was HARSH Sizing Bullets (Sizing an Oversize Bullet with the Paper Patch on it) I found Paper Patches Scattered all the Way up to my Targets, and Even Behind my Targets From Sticking, And Riding the Bullets. Process of Learning :)

Keys “That i feel” to success with Stock 1:48 Twist Barrels

First and Foremost is YOUR ability to Anchor in and Shoot Well. Simply put, Your Rifle Can NOT do it By itself, You need to Learn how to Drive it!

#1 Excerpt from “Breaking In a Barrel” by Lee Shaver:
Several years ago, I developed a process for breaking-in barrels for lead bullet use
that eliminated the afternoon of shooting and cleaning with jacketed bullet. It
began because I would occasionally have to get bad leading out of a barrel for a
customer, and when you charge what a gunsmith must charge to stay in business
you don’t want to spend an afternoon scrubbing the lead out of a customer’s gun.
And I’m sure the customer would rather not pay for said services.

What I learned was that when scrubbing lead out of a barrel, I could run a tight oily
patch through a few times and then take the patch off the jag. I would then unroll a
little 0000 steel wool and cut a piece the size of the patch. Place that over the
patch and then run it all through together. (The proper fit is when you have to
bump the rod a few times with the palm of your hand to get it started in the bore.)
When you shove that steel wool over a patch through the bore of a badly leaded
barrel, it may sound like paper tearing as the lead is ripped out of the barrel in a
pass or two. I can clean the lead out of the worst barrel in about ten or fifteen
minutes that way, and an average leaded barrel will be clean in a few strokes.

After using this technique for a while, I began to notice that the rifles that I was de-
leading that way seemed to lead less afterwards, which got me to thinking. We use
fine steel wool on the outside of old guns all the time to do some cleaning or spot
rust removal, and it does not damage the surface of the steel. It just scrubs it.
Which lead me to consider the fact that we are trying to break in a barrel by
smoothing the surface without cutting, and it seems to me that process would go
much quicker if we used something on the inside of the bore that was closer to the
hardness of the barrel instead of lead or copper. So I started trying the steel wool
and oiled patch technique on new barrels before shooting them. I use it about as
tight as I can get in the bore and wear out a steel wool pad or two in about 15
minutes, then I go and shoot the rifle.

How well does it work you might ask? On a few occasions, I have built a new rifle
and taken it to a match without ever having fired the rifle. All have performed
flawlessly in their first match and several times I won the match or set a record
with them. On one occasion, I set a new 300 yard range record with the first 13
shots out of a barrel. This method has become a service we offer to our customers
here in the shop and I have shared the technique many times with others.

So the next time you get ready to shoot that new rifle, just remember it is important
to break in a barrel properly, but if the operation you are doing to the barrel cuts –
it is not breaking it in. It may be making the barrel smoother, but to break the
barrel in you need to polish the bore by burnishing not cutting either by shooting it
or scrubbing it.
Lee Shaver

#2 Pure Lead Bullet, and i mean KNOWN PURE LEAD, High Quality Cast with SHARP Bullet Bases, That All Weigh the Same, I shoot for a 1/2 Grain, 1 Grain MAX
#3 A Good Proven Quality Bullet Lube, I have found Thinner is Better
#4 An 1/8” Wool Felt Over Powder Wad, Either Correct Bore size, or Next Size up (Oversize, 54 in 50 Etc.)
#5 Quality BlackPowder, Precisely Weighed

Follow those Steps, And i have NO DOUBT your 1:48 Twist Barrel Will COME ALIVE.
 
I continue to marvel at your results. I have the exact same renegade with 1:48 twist. The T/C maxi ball and Hunter don't group good at all. I don't cast my own bullets so what would be an over the counter equivalent of the Lyman plain bullet that I could try.
Thanks
the hornady Great Plains in .50 is still available. It’s discontinued in .45 n .54 but can be found but u may have to look a bit. Shot these prior to getting a source for the Lyman plains Bullets Lewis is referring to. The HGP shot well n killed a bunch of deer for me. I did switch to the Lyman for an elk hunt as I wanted a solid base and no hollow point
 
the hornady Great Plains in .50 is still available. It’s discontinued in .45 n .54 but can be found but u may have to look a bit. Shot these prior to getting a source for the Lyman plains Bullets Lewis is referring to. The HGP shot well n killed a bunch of deer for me. I did switch to the Lyman for an elk hunt as I wanted a solid base and no hollow point
The HGP would be for store bought Bullets. You can order conicals from No Excuses Bullets. Good stuff and he stands behind them
 
the hornady Great Plains in .50 is still available. It’s discontinued in .45 n .54 but can be found but u may have to look a bit. Shot these prior to getting a source for the Lyman plains Bullets Lewis is referring to. The HGP shot well n killed a bunch of deer for me. I did switch to the Lyman for an elk hunt as I wanted a solid base and no hollow point

I agree here with Wf4fud, The Hornady Great Plains is Probably the Best Store Bought Bullet you can Buy, It’s a DARN Good Bullet That Shoots Very Well :lewis: They are a Swaged Bullet with a Cupped/Hollow Base (I would NOT use a Regular Flat Type Over Powder Wad With these Bullets Due to their Cupped/Hollow Bases, i would use a 1/2 of a 100% Cotton Ball, Or NO WAD at all) Hornady does a Good Job in Packaging these Bullets, They are in a Hard Plastic Box, Individually Protected so they can not get Damaged. I am not Crazy about the Lube they use, The times i have Shot them, i have used my Own Lube on them
 
Lewis,
I will be performing Lee Shavers barrel break-in procedure to the Optima V2 pistol when it finally arrives home from DOC White and Levi Reed.

Cleaning it first with the steam cleaner, even though the breech plug is removable.

I will be ordering the GoJo Original Formula hand cleaner. What is the deal with the vinegar Windex? I don't recall seeing you write about that before?

Thanks for all your contributions.

By the by, what lube are you recommending for cast bullets?
 
It was a Beautiful Day today, I grabbed the Ole BONE STOCK 1:48 Twist TC Renegade and Headed out for Accuracy Test #2, The last time out with This Rifle i had a Stock 1:48 Twist 54 Cal TC Hawken Barrel in the Stock, Today was an OLD Pre Warning .54 Cal TC Renegade Barrel that i bought from Ed Mehlig



First up was the BIG 655 Grain Paper Patch Bullet, Just Because :) It didn’t shoot to Darn Bad! Kicked like a MULE Though
rU7jB3hl.jpg

D2gbi0Ml.jpg


3 Shot Group, 655 Grain Paper Patch
nMvRYHgl.jpg


Then Came the Lyman Plains, at 460 Grains, Cast of Certified Pure Lead
VjBAAI2l.jpg


Typical Lyman Plains, These Bullets Shoot in EVERYTHING i have put them through
fyNgGCRl.jpg

Rabbit load??? 2000 lb rabbits maybe. That bullet will knock the soup outta anything you shoot with it! Nice shootin Lewis! Hopefully my outing in the a.m goes as well.
 
Lewis,
I will be performing Lee Shavers barrel break-in procedure to the Optima V2 pistol when it finally arrives home from DOC White and Levi Reed.

Cleaning it first with the steam cleaner, even though the breech plug is removable.

I will be ordering the GoJo Original Formula hand cleaner. What is the deal with the vinegar Windex? I don't recall seeing you write about that before?

Thanks for all your contributions.

By the by, what lube are you recommending for cast bullets?

The GOJO Hand Cleaner WITHOUT Pumice Really Works!! Contrary to what some would prefer to Believe, Bullet ABSOLUTELY sticks inside the Bore, I have Seen it over n over With my Bore Scope. Soap will eventually Cut it, But it takes a LOT of Elbow Grease, and Time. GOJO Makes the Process MUCH MUCH easier. As for the Vinegar Windex, I don’t use that? In fact I don’t even use Windex anymore, I prefer Straight Isopropyl Alcohol, either the 91% Stuff, Or Better yet the Red Bottle HEET for Gasoline Fuel Tanks (What i have been using for a Year or More now)

You are Welcome Bruce, Contributing here is how i Share. I live in Extreme Northern Idaho, I do this Stuff by myself, I Don’t know anyone here that Shares the Same interest in Muzzleloading, At Least Nothing like i do. This Forum gives me a Place to Visit with others that Share the same Passion for ML as i do. I Share the things that i have learned, The Good & the Bad, in Hopes of Helping others. There is not a Jealous bone in my Body, I TRULY get as Much, If not more Enjoyment Seeing others Succeed as i Get from Shooting a Great Group myself.

The Bullet Lube that i have ALWAYS Swore by, is Bullshop’s NASA Lube. You can Also make a Good effective Lube with Simple ingredients Such as Crisco, Beeswax, and Lanolin, Simply Work with Texture until you Get desired Results. I have found the Thinner the Lube, the Better. I Prefer my Bullet Lube Just Thick Enough to Hold in the Grooves. The WORST Shooting i have ever Done was with a Harder Bullet Lube. As I’ve said MANY times, Bullet Lube can Make, Or Break Accuracy
 
the hornady Great Plains in .50 is still available. It’s discontinued in .45 n .54 but can be found but u may have to look a bit. Shot these prior to getting a source for the Lyman plains Bullets Lewis is referring to. The HGP shot well n killed a bunch of deer for me. I did switch to the Lyman for an elk hunt as I wanted a solid base and no hollow point
thanks willfish, i ordered some in 50 cal to try
 
I agree here with Wf4fud, The Hornady Great Plains is Probably the Best Store Bought Bullet you can Buy, It’s a DARN Good Bullet That Shoots Very Well :lewis: They are a Swaged Bullet with a Cupped/Hollow Base (I would NOT use a Regular Flat Type Over Powder Wad With these Bullets Due to their Cupped/Hollow Bases, i would use a 1/2 of a 100% Cotton Ball, Or NO WAD at all) Hornady does a Good Job in Packaging these Bullets, They are in a Hard Plastic Box, Individually Protected so they can not get Damaged. I am not Crazy about the Lube they use, The times i have Shot them, i have used my Own Lube on them
thanks lewis
 
Saxton, They measure .85 long (Both the .50 and .54) They are a Tapered ML Bullet, The .54 is like .539-.540 Base, The Forward “Driving Band” is .548

If i were Planning a Hunt with these, and they were Cast of PURE Lead, I would not Size them, I would Want that Extra “Grip” to the Bore to insure the Bullet Stayed firmly Put on the Powder. Since i Mostly Target Shoot, I prefer to Size them Closer to my Bore Diameter, At the Bench there is simply no Reason to Shove on Bullets, I only do that when i am Preparing a Rifle to Hunt.

Lewis,

I sent you a PM. Thanks for all the information and knowledge you share!
 
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