54 renegade

[vt mike]

I cant seem to make my Renegade in 54 cal shoot worth a damn. put a scope on as I cant see like I used to ,,using 90 gr of FF Goex ,wool wad,tc maxi ball. two shots close,third shot 6inches away. shooting off a bench at 50 yds, not swabbing between shots. kept repeating that pattern. no real consistency. when I got it 30 years ago I could drive tacks, now I cant see them-hence the scope. would like to try plains bullitts but it seems nobody is making 54s anymore. cant find a mold either. I ve seen Idaholewis drive tacks with that same gun on youtube vids and I'm determined to make it shoot up to it's potential. any help is greatly appreciated

 

[HC]

Shooting my Renegade 50 cal, I always swab after each shot. There’s lots of info on swabbing here in the forums. Good luck.

 

[Idaholewis]

Does your Rifle have a QLA Muzzle by chance? Are these store bought Bullets or home cast?

Try this, Lube ONLY the Rear Lube Groove of the Maxi, If they are Store bought, Remove the Lube from the Front Lube Groove, And try a Group like this

Store Bought Maxi’s can REALLY vary in Quality, I have seen them weigh 10 Grains apart, Wrinkles in them from Poor Fillout, Dinged up Bullet Bases. The Bullet bases need to be PRISTINE, Since that is what steers the Bullet

 

[vt mike]

saw your vids on you tube-awsome ! so I used store bought TC maxis,not lubed so I did as you suggested and only lubed the bottom groove. I dont know what a QLA muzzle is., but its a stock factory 1 in 48 barrel. the bases looked good. I tried Powerbelts and the results were unbelievably bad., with 90 and 100 gr of FF goex. I threw half of them out !! really has me pulling my hair out_ and I dont have any to spare !!

 

[Oldtimerbow]

Try dropping your powder charge to 70 go and work up in 5 gr increments . Mine shoots good with 70-80 gr . I usually shoot fff goes. Plenty enough charge for hunting to. I have never recovered a bullet from a deer with that load,all pass through.

 

[Dean schwarzenbach]

Hey by mike I’ve a question c renagade i use 80 grains goex ffg, and I’m shooting a 535 grain bullet from (No Excuses) with a wool wad (54-56) caliber Shooting out to a hundred yards I’m not as good a shot as idholewis I’m sure, but I’m steadily hitting a 3 inch group, they come pre lubed, just need to clean them up a little ( wipe) I’ve the same sight as Lewis, I’ve tryed different bullets and they seem to be the best so far! Hope this helps!

 

[vt mike]

Does your Rifle have a QLA Muzzle by chance? Are these store bought Bullets or home cast?

Try this, Lube ONLY the Rear Lube Groove of the Maxi, If they are Store bought, Remove the Lube from the Front Lube Groove, And try a Group like this

Store Bought Maxi’s can REALLY vary in Quality, I have seen them weigh 10 Grains apart, Wrinkles in them from Poor Fillout, Dinged up Bullet Bases. The Bullet bases need to be PRISTINE, Since that is what steers the Bullet

ok so I finally was able to get some Goex ffg and some TC maxi's today I have some Plains bullets on the way from Dan. I'm bored so I'm going to try again with the maxis. 1 in 48 renegade,over powder 54 cal wads. I was using 90 grains of FF. where would you recommend I start off with powder ? maybe I was using too much ? I would appreciate your thoughts on this. thanx Mike

 

[Dean schwarzenbach]

Id try 70 at 50 yards, but that’s me

 

[deermanok]

Maybe try 60 grains and work up from there. At least 3 shots per group, shooting for consistency and not for accuracy until you find the best load.

 

[Dean schwarzenbach]

Yeah I’m with deer man ok, get the consistency first, have fun and enjoy the smoke!

 

[vt mike]

Id try 70 at 50 yards, but that’s me

 

[Idaholewis]

ok so I finally was able to get some Goex ffg and some TC maxi's today I have some Plains bullets on the way from Dan. I'm bored so I'm going to try again with the maxis. 1 in 48 renegade,over powder 54 cal wads. I was using 90 grains of FF. where would you recommend I start off with powder ? maybe I was using too much ? I would appreciate your thoughts on this. thanx Mike

70 Grains should get you right in there, Try a Group with ONLY the Bottom Lube Groove Filled with Lube, Remove the Lube from the Top Groove. That is the only way i could Get Maxi’s to Shoot Well for me, and they Shot Quite well when i did that They are Lube PIGS, That excess Lube DESTROYS Accuracy, it throws the Bullet out of Balance

 

[MtnWanderer]

Just so you know. There's a member on Marlin Owners who makes cast bullets of excellent quality for modern rifles. He's thinking about black powder. I suggested 54 cal as they are getting rare. Going to send him a couple 54 cal Great Plains so he has a reference to start with. Will post here if he makes some.

 

[daveheffner110]

Just a thought-I have been shooting PRB more these days and had decent results out to 75 and 100 yards. This was with a 50 Renegade and 70 grains of 2F Swiss.
I was happy with everything, and then the group fell apart.
Listen to Lewis, as several of us do. I picked up on something he advocates, and replaced my nipple with a new unit. Everything came right back.

 

[Leadhoarder]

Id try 70 at 50 yards, but that’s me

I know my .54 renegade makes one ragged hole at 50 with 70gr of 3f. When I bought it and went to shoot it I just started there and never moved the slide on the measure because I am not going to shoot no better than that with irons no matter what load I try,

 

[Matthew323]

A 223.2 grain (0.530" diameter) to 229.6 grain (0.535" diameter) patched lead ball out of an old sidelock, will kill deer, elk, moose, black bear, & feral hogs, deader than a door knob all day long, & twice on Sunday, just as well as ANY LEAD CONICAL backed by ANY WEIGHT charge of BH209 that you can stuff down the barrel of a modern inline.

Patched balls have disproportionate killing power that simply CANNOT be found in ANY ballistics table. It has much to do with their wide frontal area, pure soft lead, almost instantaneous flattening & enlarging upon striking game, and believe it or not, their slower velocities compared to the average velocities of bullets.

 

[snapbang]

My take is start with less powder. 60gr as deermanok states. Shoot 3 and if that doesnt help try 65 and so on until you get the best group. Use lube only in the bottom groove. (lewis) Keep notes on each group so you can go back and make some thoughts. (snapbang)

As for round balls I killed more deer with my .50 hawken and prb than all of my other rifles put together. They are cheap. accurate, and do kill just fine at reasonable ranges.

 

[Matthew323]

Patched balls will kill adequately out to 100 yards in any caliber from .45, on up. The bigger the ball, and the slower the rate of twist in the barrel, along with larger powder charges, the farther you can extend the killing range.

The ONLY 2 LIMITATIONS are the hunter's eyesight, and the quality of the iron sights.

Put a scope on the sidelock (HORRORS!!!!!!), and the .58, .60, .62,. & .66 caliber balls are capable of delivering devestating killing power out past 200 yards.

A Forsyth rifled .62 caliber English Sporting Rifle, which is the direct ancestor of all modern stock designs, with its 0.006" deep rifling designed strictly for shooting patched balls with heavy black powder charges, has ENORMOUS MUZZLE ENERGIES.

The barrels have 8 lands & grooves. The lands measure only 0.04867" wide, with the grooves being 4 times wider measuring 0.19468" wide.

If so desired, a 0.595" diameter × 304.3 grain ball cast out of wheel weight metal, along with a thick, cotton canvas, or linen, patch measuring 0.028" thick, may be shot out of such a rifle. Such a ball has the ability to shoot through both shoulders of a moose.

Depending upon the rate of twist, powder charges can range from 200 grains of ffg Swiss black powder, down to 100 grains of Goex ffg black powder.

Rates of twist may be 1:144", 1:104", 1:95", 1:84", 1:72". The slower the rate of twist, the larger the powder charge required to start obtaining good accuracy.

A barrel just like one used in the mid-19th Century can be had from Rice in any of the above twists, except perhaps 1:144".

The ability to shoot long distances with a patched ball, or any distance with enormous energy, using both pure lead & hard lead balls, cannot be underestimated. Until you get up into the class of 500 grain lead conicals, a .62 caliber ball weighing between 315.8-348.7 grains has no equal. You have got to see one of these balls strike a game animal to understand just how effective it is.

Edit: I changed the weight of the wheel weight metal ball above to reflect its true weight. The previous weight was for a 0.595" diameter ball cast out of pure lead, and I had forgotten to do the calculation converting a pure lead weight to a wheel weight metal weight. The weight of 315.8 grains was incorrect.

Bruce

P.s. Linotype metal could also be used as a hard substitute for pure lead in a Forsyth rifled barrel.

 

[brushblind]

If all these fine suggestions fail I'd have a new crown cut. This would be for a non QLA muzzle of course, which I find extremely annoying!

 

[Matthew323]

We all should have asked this question before?

Does the rifle in question have a recessed/counterbored muzzle, which Thompson/Center labels QLA. Which stands for Quick Load Accurizer. Many, many, many of the barrels from T/C had the QLA machined off center. And, to a certain degree, do the imitations of the QLA from other companies.

No one knows exactly what makes the off center counterbore cause such terrible accuracy, but it does.

My theory is the millisecond that the base of the bullet reaches the off center counterbore, the escaping gases unevenly surround, and pass the bullet, causing it to tip oh so slightly off of an accurate path down range. Causing anything from poor to terrible accuracy.

Remove the QLA counterbore, and recrown the muzzle. Even if you use a good pipe cutter spun around the barrel by hand, a file to smooth off the rough perimeter of the cut, and your thumb & wet/dry carborundum paper to form a new crown; you will be a 1000 times better off than with an off center counterbore.