777 issues

[Patched]

I have an optima pistol and rifle, and a wolf rifle. I recently switched from my beloved bh209 to the dredded 777 Because of the price. I shoot a fair amount and I just don't want to pay the premium for bh209. I've shot pyrodex in the past and wasn't happy with it, dirty and stinky. I'm going to try some pyrodex p and select and see how I like it.

First issue is the crud ring it's horrible, every single shot I have to wet scrub back and forth, then dry patch the barrel to be able to get another bullet down the barrels. I don't have any low power primers just win209's so maybe that's the issue, I'm going to try and get my hands on some of them. I alcohol scrub the barrel and plug before the first shot to get the oil out. I really got used to the barely any smoke with bh209, wind was blowing in my face I had to hold my breath every time I shot until the smoke cleared.

Second issue with bh209 most everything I tried shot well, with 777 I shot from 60 to 86 grains weighed and only 80gr was even acceptable in the optima rifle, about 1.5" at 100 yards. Most other groups were 2" to 3" lots of fliers too opening some groups up to 5 or 6". The wolf and the optima pistol groups weren't any good at all. Ive never really shot the wolf for accuracy it just gets what ever my optima likes so maybe thats as good as it will shoot. The optima pistol seems to like heavier loads of bh209, so I started on the heavy side with 777, im going to try some lighter loads, maybe thats the trick. Any pointers here? I shot the factory plugs in all 3 guns the wolf and pistol plugs are new, and the optima plug was only shot with bh209 one day. Should I try my bh209 plugs or my ssk plugs? With bh209 my guns shot better on a dirty barrel, this isn't possible for me with 777 could that be the problem? I didn't try a variety of bullets, .45 300gr xtp in rifles and a .44 240gr xtp in the pistol, so I know I need to experiment more in that respect. Do I just have to accept the fact that 777 isn't going to shoot as well for me?

I do love how easy 777 is to clean once the crud ring is gone, although I dislike having to use water based cleaner. Primers are clean, just like bh209 but with 777 no stuck ones, they fall right out of the plug when I open the action.

It was my first day at the range with 777 and I'm not giving up on it yet, but a whole day at the range just left me very frustrated with 777. Really hoping bh209 price comes down, and I can switch back soon.

The time/pressure curve traces for T7 and bh209 are virtually identical


especially the 2f T7 ( unknown to me if these are volume or weight measured tests).
Barrel fouling is vastly different as you’ve learned….bh209 is effortless in maintaining a constant consistent bore fouling condition.

With T7 we all have to work at a consistent bore condition…the cold clean bore shot (for me as a hunter) is the money shot…a follow up shot without swabbing impacts close to the clean bore shot in both my guns CVA 45 optimas gen 1.

Any extended shooting sessions require developing a bore swabbing routine that works for you…the object of which is to maintain a shot to shot bore condition…if you want that cold clean bore shot condition…well, you have to do the cleaning…I found that a relatively quick wet windex patch and dry patches done twice followed by snapping a primer is a routine that works for me…

Blackpowder/muzzloading has always been a fouling rich endeavor until BH209 came along…and spoiled the living crepe out of the new frontstuffers….T7 is a great product, stay positive, you’re just gonna have to work a little to get it to work like BH209.

 

[RobRed]

The time/pressure curve traces for T7 and bh209 are virtually identical
View attachment 30175

especially the 2f T7 ( unknown to me if these are volume or weight measured tests).
Barrel fouling is vastly different as you’ve learned….bh209 is effortless in maintaining a constant consistent bore fouling condition.

With T7 we all have to work at a consistent bore condition…the cold clean bore shot (for me as a hunter) is the money shot…a follow up shot without swabbing impacts close to the clean bore shot in both my guns CVA 45 optimas gen 1.

Any extended shooting sessions require developing a bore swabbing routine that works for you…the object of which is to maintain a shot to shot bore condition…if you want that cold clean bore shot condition…well, you have to do the cleaning…I found that a relatively quick wet windex patch and dry patches done twice followed by snapping a primer is a routine that works for me…

Blackpowder/muzzloading has always been a fouling rich endeavor until BH209 came along…and spoiled the living crepe out of the new frontstuffers….T7 is a great product, stay positive, you’re just gonna have to work a little to get it to work like BH209.

Amazing how much pressure a firmly tamped T7 pellet puts out. Even the no tamp pellets have a steeper higher pressure curve? Wonder what the cause for this is?

 

[HC]

Look closer at the chart.

 

[LAUDY1962]

switch the shooters world multi purpose black ---- no crud ring shoots on average 70 fps slower than T7 and only 23.99 per pound at scheels. you will love it

 

[Swamp]

Getting back to UPTrapper's post, I look at muzzleloading like this. Muzzleloaders (Non Smokeless) are dirty plain and simple, its just how they are. I shoot real black, pyrodex and T7 in my rifles. I've never shot BH209, and have no plans to do so. When I go to the range, I don't try to shoot as many shots as I can in a certain amount of time. If I wanted to do that, I'd take my 22 or centerfire rifles. With my ML'ers, I want to see my rifles performance with every single shot, and that means swabbing between shots to keep things consistent. I don't know why everyone complains so much about the dreaded crud ring. I clean it out with three patches, two wet and one dry, and my rifle is ready to go.. What I like about swabbing, it gives me peace of mind knowing that the next shot will be consistent with the previous shot, and not to mention that it allows for my barrel to cool down between shots, giving me true results when it comes time to hunt. I enjoy finding that perfect load for a particular rifle, and seeing 5 well placed shots on a target, is for me, way more satisfying than saying I shot 25 or more shots today while at the range and I didn't have to swab.

Remember, if you change anything with your loads (powder, primer, bullet, sabot, anything), its a whole new formula to figure out. And with BH209, whether you agree or not, your rifle is slowly changing with every shot without swabbing, as powder and plastic residue, is slowly building up in the bore. All the videos I see of shooters using BH209, there is smoke, yes not as heavy as the other powders, but there is smoke, and smoke equals residue in your bore period.

 

[Okie Hog]

switch the shooters world multi purpose black ---- no crud ring shoots on average 70 fps slower than T7 and only 23.99 per pound at scheels. you will love it

Works for me.