8208 @ 600

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I have experience shooting military ranges 50, 300, 600, 1000 yds. I've shot competition and have been a firearms instructor over 30 years. I have real world experience with shots going down range and coming back at me. I hope I never come across as knowing everything. The more I learn the more I realize how much I have to learn. This is a great forum to learn and I am taking advantage of it. I hope that guy that knows everything finds a place where is more comfortable. I like Hatchet Jack's take on flies. :)
 
@ENCORE50A :

Hey George, First, let me apologize for asking a question that's on topic, but I don't know... I'm assuming "SML" is "Smokeless Muzzloader." So, what kind of Powder charge do you use in an SML to propel a 300 grainer that far? And if you've answered that question already, forgive me again. It kinda got lost in the soap opera.

I shoot my .338 LM at distance - (Not going to get into specifics 'cause I'm not kicking that hornets' nest :rolleyes:), but I simply cannot fathom doing it with a ML (only because I have no experience at it)! That is a fantastic feat!!

-Jim

(My .338LM - for reference only)

S110St.jpg
 
@ENCORE50A :

Hey George, First, let me apologize for asking a question that's on topic, but I don't know... I'm assuming "SML" is "Smokeless Muzzloader." So, what kind of Powder charge do you use in an SML to propel a 300 grainer that far? And if you've answered that question already, forgive me again. It kinda got lost in the soap opera.

I shoot my .338 LM at distance - (Not going to get into specifics 'cause I'm not kicking that hornets' nest :rolleyes:), but I simply cannot fathom doing it with a ML (only because I have no experience at it)! That is a fantastic feat!!

-Jim

(My .338LM - for reference only)

View attachment 10108

For safety reasons and even though we're in a SML (smokeless muzzleloader) forum, I'd rather not list my charges. What may be very safe in my rifle may be dangerous in another. I strictly stay within the safe charges provided to me buy the rifle builder.

I'm only shooting two different propellants, Benchmark and 8208. Both are sending the Arrowhead 300gr XLD bullets at 2,900fps.
 
For safety reasons and even though we're in a SML (smokeless muzzleloader) forum, I'd rather not list my charges.
Completely understand. But at that velocity, I am guessing your rifle is able to handle some pretty stout loads. I just have no concept of a SML's capability.
 
Completely understand. But at that velocity, I am guessing your rifle is able to handle some pretty stout loads. I just have no concept of a SML's capability.

Put it this way, Depending on the SML (Heavy Bench Gun) they are FAR FAR More Capable than your .338 Lapua Magnum, in fact it’s not even Close. ENCORE’s Loads here @2900 with a 300 Grain Bullet is SPANKING a .338 Lapua Magnum. To say the SML‘s are Impressive is a GROSS understatement :) I see them as FAR SUPERIOR to ANY Cartridge Gun, The Brass Cartridge is the “Weak Link” In our Cartridge Guns, an SML has No Cartridge, No Lands to Jump.

As I’ve said MANY times now, if i ever venture back to an inline, it would UNDOUBTEDLY be a Smokeless Rig, If i am gonna Have a Modern Muzzleloader, Im gonna have a MODERN MUZZLELOADER ;) I would TOTALLY Skip BH209, it wouldn’t even be a Remote Thought
 
Completely understand. But at that velocity, I am guessing your rifle is able to handle some pretty stout loads. I just have no concept of a SML's capability.

Let this Soak in, a 350 Grain Bullet at 3,800 Fps :p

let’s Don’t muddy up ENCORE’s Thread here. In your Spare time, Go to Youtube and Do a Search for “the worlds most powerful Muzzleloader” and watch Jeff Hankins with his Cyclops Rifle, UNREAL is an understatement. 350 Grain Bullet @3,800 Fps, it sizzles through AR500 Plate like BUTTA
 
Put it this way, Depending on the SML (Heavy Bench Gun) they are FAR FAR More Capable than your .338 Lapua Magnum, in fact it’s not even Close. ENCORE’s Loads here @2900 with a 300 Grain Bullet is SPANKING a .338 Lapua Magnum. To say the SML‘s are Impressive is a GROSS understatement :) I see them as FAR SUPERIOR to ANY Cartridge Gun, The Brass Cartridge is the “Weak Link” In our Cartridge Guns, an SML has No Cartridge, No Lands to Jump.

As I’ve said MANY times now, if i ever venture back to an inline, it would UNDOUBTEDLY be a Smokeless Rig, If i am gonna Have a Modern Muzzleloader, Im gonna have a MODERN MUZZLELOADER ;) I would TOTALLY Skip BH209, it wouldn’t even be a Remote Thought
Actually Well said Lewis
 
However, back to the point - my ignorance - I'm guessing with those velocities, you're not generally, or ever, using sabots? What's the loading effort like?
 
However, back to the point - my ignorance - I'm guessing with those velocities, you're not generally, or ever, using sabots? What's the loading effort like?

No sabots. All bullet to bore. I'd suggest that many find loading efforts different than others, but here's my process that is working right now for me.

In a CLEAN bore, I size bullets to fit my bore at 9#. Once the barrel is fouled they load SOMEWHERE in the neighborhood of 20-25# and two hands. Honestly, yes I have the tooling to accurately measure the fouled barrel force, but just never felt the need.
 
I watched the the worlds most powerful Muzzleloader video as well. I never saw anything like that. Then I spent several hours watching his other videos!
 
I did watch the referenced video from Lewis' post... Wow. I am truly floored.

@45-70 :

I'm breaking up with you, too :mad:
You have relationship issues, and therefore are MANDATED by MM guidelines to IMMEDIATELY ATTEND counseling classes with UGLY GIRLS so as to regain your social equilibrium.

Failure to attend these classes, and to FULLY PARTICIPATE may result in revocation of your SMART ASS priviledges for a period not to exceed 90 days.

Upon completion of the counseling classes, you will be REQUIRED to spend a period of two weeks, 14 hours a day, 7 day per week, in Milan, Italy without ONCE leering, gawking, eyeballing, drooling, or otherwise disrespecfully in any visual, or audible, way treating any female of the human species.

THIS INCLUDES beautiful, plain, and ugly females alike.

Successful completion of the counseling class/ social rehabilitation program will result in a reinstatement of your Modern Muzzleloading SMART ASS priviledges.
 
Unfortunately that same video has generated interest by some states DNR divisions, none of it good.

I can definitely see how/why. Ballistically Speaking, That particular Muzzleloader is right with a .50 Browning Machine Gun, CRAZY, INSANE POWER!! He completely vaporizes a Deers Head with that Rifle in one of his Videos, He pulls the Trigger, and it’s head is a Cloud of Blood instantaneously

SML’s are impressive to say the least, The Allure for that kind of AWESOME Power is Strong for some of us, BUT Folks need to realize, These Smokeless Rigs are NOT for everyone. NO Disrespect meant here to anyone, But i would say the Percentage of Folks right here on this forum that have the Knowledge to Safely Work with SML is teeny tiny. Unlike Blackpowder and it’s Substitutes such as Triple Seven, and Pyrodex, One Bad/Careless mistake with a Smokeless Muzzleloader, And Your last “Log in“ here, could very well be your Last one FOREVER! Unless you are HIGHLY Advanced, My advise is to Stick with Blackpowder, and it’s Substitutes
 
I can definitely see how/why. Ballistically Speaking, That particular Muzzleloader is right with a .50 Browning Machine Gun, CRAZY, INSANE POWER!! He completely vaporizes a Deers Head with that Rifle in one of his Videos, He pulls the Trigger, and it’s head is a Cloud of Blood instantaneously

SML’s are impressive to say the least, The Allure for that kind of AWESOME Power is Strong for some of us, BUT Folks need to realize, These Smokeless Rigs are NOT for everyone. NO Disrespect meant here to anyone, But i would say the Percentage of Folks right here on this forum that have the Knowledge to Safely Work with SML is teeny tiny. Unlike Blackpowder and it’s Substitutes such as Triple Seven, and Pyrodex, One Bad/Careless mistake with a Smokeless Muzzleloader, And Your last “Log in“ here, could very well be your Last one FOREVER! Unless you are HIGHLY Advanced, My advise is to Stick with Blackpowder, and it’s Substitutes

More wildlife managers, DNR and such, read these forums more than most would ever realize. They watch the videos, obtain all the information that they can and either use it for or against new rule/law making. I can assure you that the top law enforcement officer at the MI - DNR has seen the Hankins video. He was not pleased.

SML's..... you're right, they are not for everyone. I myself swore off them for years, but as more information became available and more actual testing was done, I finally conceded. Its a whole new world and your attention span can not vary. It seems like every rule that you've been used to, is now multiplied by at least 10X, but there are more rules even yet. Everything becomes more important regardless what it may be. A SML isn't for someone just wanting to say they have one.
 
I have seen Cyclops shoot a few times and for one you are not going to carry that rifle around as it weighs 32 lbs. That video was shot at the range where Ky. Challenge ml shoot is. It shoots almost 3 times the powder as a 7mm mag. 3moa dial up @ 400 yds.
 
I have seen Cyclops shoot a few times and for one you are not going to carry that rifle around as it weighs 32 lbs. That video was shot at the range where Ky. Challenge ml shoot is. It shoots almost 3 times the powder as a 7mm mag. 3moa dial up @ 400 yds.

Believe me, I totally understand. Just Watch him pick it up off the Bench, It is a VERY HEAVY Bench Rifle, Obviously not designed to Throw over the Shoulder and Head out Across Mountain Ranges :) Where i hunt here in North Idaho, that Rifle is 100% Useless. As a Bench Rifle, I see Cyclops as Nothing less than FLAT OUT AWESOME, DEVASTATING POWER

Where he is hunting (at least what I have seen in his Videos) Appears to be the same place he Bench Shoots. (KY Challenge) The Deer he is hunting are feeding down in to that Field (Shooting Range) at Dusk (Typical Whitetail behavior) He is Setup on a Bench Waiting for them. As for the Hunting part, I see no challenge whatsoever in what he is Doing (My opinion) And doesn’t matter, it’s obviously legal for him to do it. He mentions filling the Freezer, and appears to accomplish that Goal.
 
One of the things that most modern shooters forget is the great number of deaths, and maiming injuries that occurred when smokeless powders first appeared on the scene.

There was a real steep learning curve in those early days, and as each new powder was brought to market to be sold to civilians, it had almost always already been tested in ballistic labs set up to provide data for various military applications.

Those labs had what at first was fairly crude pressure testing equipment, that as time went on became ever more sophisticated.

When I first joined MM forum, and realized that there was a sub-forum for smokeless powder muzzleloading; one of the VERY FIRST THOUGHTS TO PASS THROUGH MY HEAD WAS, "How do these guys figure out what is a safe powder charge to shoot in these rifles?"

Do they all own pressure testing equipment? I did not think that the loading manuals for brass cartridge reloading would translate directly over into loading into .45 & .50 caliber muzzleloaders.

So, where was the safe data coming from? SOMEBODY HAD TO OWN, AND BE USING PRESSURE TESTING EQUIPMENT in order to come up with safe loading data?
 

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