8208 @ 600

[ENCORE50A]

............... So, where was the safe data coming from? SOMEBODY HAD TO OWN, AND BE USING PRESSURE TESTING EQUIPMENT in order to come up with safe loading data?

There may also be others.......
https://hanksmessageboard.freeforums.net/board/34/caliber-pressure-trace-data-listed

 

[45-70]

to me there are 4 types of muzzle loaders , Black Powder, the normal subs, blackhorn, SML, all apples and oranges.

 

[jcnull2305]

SML's..... you're right, they are not for everyone. I myself swore off them for years,

FLAT OUT AWESOME, DEVASTATING POWER

One of the things that most modern shooters forget is the great number of deaths, and maiming injuries that occurred when smokeless powders first appeared on the scene.

the Percentage of Folks right here on this forum that have the Knowledge to Safely Work with SML is teeny tiny.

...Great. now I *REALLY* want one.

 

[Cent540]

You have relationship issues, and therefore are MANDATED by MM guidelines to IMMEDIATELY ATTEND counseling classes with UGLY GIRLS so as to regain your social equilibrium.

Failure to attend these classes, and to FULLY PARTICIPATE may result in revocation of your SMART ASS priviledges for a period not to exceed 90 days.

Upon completion of the counseling classes, you will be REQUIRED to spend a period of two weeks, 14 hours a day, 7 day per week, in Milan, Italy without ONCE leering, gawking, eyeballing, drooling, or otherwise disrespecfully in any visual, or audible, way treating any female of the human species.

THIS INCLUDES beautiful, plain, and ugly females alike.

Successful completion of the counseling class/ social rehabilitation program will result in a reinstatement of your Modern Muzzleloading SMART ASS priviledges.

Lol, oh you've been to couples counseling, haven't you?

 

[Matthew323]

Lol, oh you've been to couples counseling, haven't you?

"I KNOW NOTHING!! I SEE NOTHING!!! I HEAR NOTHING!!!!"

 

[Cent540]

Lol, oh you've been to couples counseling, haven't you?

After I stopped going (after first session) the counselor asked my wife if I've always had problems following through with commitments. My Mrs said I've been like that for the 35 years we've been married and she would have to make a couple calls to find out how I was at the job I retired from.

 

[D55]

I thought commitments were when they took you away in a straight jacket?

 

[GM54-120]

Way before Hankins, Swinglock was selling his own 416s. Complete hand built customs. The upper end loads were plain nasty. 450gr bullets at close to 2900fps.

When it comes to SMLs i enjoy the milder range loads. 4198 will produce energy in the same range as a 458Win Mag without much trouble. They typically just dont use the same really heavy bullets. You can get peak down a fair amount when you want to shoot a 300gr around 2800fps or more with the slower powders. 3031 was one of the earlier powders used to get there. You got to use way more powder but peak pressure dropped.

So if you want to build something that will shoot say.....a 300gr around 2500fps, you can do that easily with 4198 and a few other powders. Even a Remage/Savage or HowAge 45cal build should handle that with no problem.

40cals though are a whole other animal. Got to be super careful. The "oops" range is tiny compared to the 45s.

 

[Matthew323]

Way before Hankins, Swinglock was selling his own 416s. Complete hand built customs. The upper end loads were plain nasty. 450gr bullets at close to 2900fps.

When it comes to SMLs i enjoy the milder range loads. 4198 will produce energy in the same range as a 458Win Mag without much trouble. They typically just dont use the same really heavy bullets. You can get peak down a fair amount when you want to shoot a 300gr around 2800fps or more with the slower powders. 3031 was one of the earlier powders used to get there. You got to use way more powder but peak pressure dropped.

So if you want to build something that will shoot say.....a 300gr around 2500fps, you can do that easily with 4198 and a few other powders. Even a Remage/Savage or HowAge 45cal build should handle that with no problem.

40cals though are a whole other animal. Got to be super careful. The "oops" range is tiny compared to the 45s.

I am guessing that the smaller the bullet's diameter/the rifle's bore, the more sensitive the smokeless m-l becomes to breech over pressure issues?

Before swinglock stopped building custom smokeless m-l rifles for sale, Tom offered a 6.5mm option. With some of the new heavyweight bullets being offered for sale, a 6.5mm smokeless m-l is a very attractive rifle to me.

With an all up weight of 7.75 pounds, scoped, slung, and ready to shoot; I would love to have a smokeless, stalking, hunting weight, m-l to work with in 6.5mm. An 18"-20" barrel would be sufficient, because I would be more than willing to limit my shots to under 200 yards.

 

[GM54-120]

That would be illegal here even in our regular season. 40cal minimum for MLs no matter what season.

 

[Matthew323]

That would be illegal here even in our regular season. 40cal minimum for MLs no matter what season.

But, one could still hunt the regular rifle seasons with it, correct?

 

[GM54-120]

No. Its right in the listed legal methods. Same for all parts of our season

 

[Matthew323]

No. Its right in the listed legal methods. Same for all parts of our season
View attachment 10122

Bummer. For some silly reason I thought the smaller smokeless calibers could be used during the regular firearms season. If a .25-20 is legal, then why not a 6.5mm smokeless m-l?.

"Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids!!!!!"

 

[jims]

In Ohio the minimum is .38. I guess to avoid using the old smaller bore squirrel rifles. I agree with GM. For my purposes and ranges and especially for my daughters who do not like heavy recoil or brakes the more mild loads have done us well. Usually in the 2400 fps range in .45 barreled Savages but a couple of other makes.
I do not think the deer can tell the difference. The daughters are solid shots and when placed properly with good bullets and generally under 135 yards no problems.

 

[GM54-120]

Even though for me personally just prefering the milder to mid range loads, i think its great to see guys using other powders getting lower or safe peaks and crazy speeds/accuracy. Mine is a small shank Savage with the old style MLII bushing plug. So the more current high end loads are out of the question. I could however probably use BenchMark or 3031 to get more speed at a safe peak if i chose to do so.

I just went back and read this topic from the start. As a mod i can see posts that had to be removed. I only read the first few posts when it was first posted. Its a shame what happened between then and my first post.

 

[Matthew323]

I am guilty of deviating off course in the middle of this thread. Even though I currently do not own a SML, I am still interested in the entire process involved with shooting smokeless powders in a m-l firearm. Thus, I avidly read most, if not all of the smokeless posts here.

 

[GM54-120]

There are guys here who have been shooting SML since the early Savage days. Still a few posting occasionally from the beginning of the Pacnor 45 conversions although we lost one of the really good ones. Even Wakeman was here and very active until things became heated. Most of that was just before my time. The Smokeless Alternative section is locked. You cant post there anymore but you can read it. RBinAR (RIP) has some good reads on the topic. Without his and SW's efforts im just not sure where 45cal SMLs would be today.

 

[Matthew323]

I have read many of those posts over in the locked, Smokeless Alternative section of the forum.

Some very contentious, and informative threads there.

With my flintlock long rifles, there was no greater satisfaction, than shooting a tight group at 100 yards on one of my infrequent very good days.

Long distance target shooting would not be a primary focus if I were to have a SML custom built.

Having been a fan of the Scout Rifle concept since Col. Jeff Cooper first proposed it, that is the type of SML that I would want to build.

1 meter long w/a ....
.45 caliber barrel threaded 3/4"-24 for....
a LR Customs MZ REX 2 muzzle brake...
Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad w/a....
12.75" length of pull....
O.A.Weight w/scope & sling under 7.5 lbs. If possible....

 

[GM54-120]

To get the weight down that much you will probably need a custom action (Rem 700 clone) or Mini Howa. Plus the barrel contour is a huge factor too. Just my Pacnor 45 barrel is over 5lbs. The stock will be quite costly as well. So the least expensive route is likely the Mini Howa in a HowAge build. Another light action is the Savage Light Weight Hunter but those are no longer made and rather expensive when you find one for sale.

Just remember, builds that are going after light weight will likey put heavy restrictions on max loads. A full size Rem700 barrel shank is over 1.2" OD and 5" long or more for the thumper load contours. A large shank Savage is just over 1.1" and a small is just over 1.0". So pick your poison wisely.