Ammunition

[rangerod]

Yep the election. As if this is the first controversial election we've ever had. People are scared of the boogey man. So they buy every roll of toilet paper and firearm they can put their hands on. Don't let the fear and hatred, from either side, suck you in.
"This, too, shall pass".

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Chick]

I make a trip to a local motorcycle shop that sells outdoor supplies as well. Limited to one box I can purchase one box of Federal .22 50 rounds and 1 box american eagle .22 40 rounds.

I try to go every couple of days. It's really annoying. .10 cents a round.

I remember when a box of .22 ammo cost .99 cents.

Ha! When I was 10 yrs old, on Tuesday evenings, my dad took me to the weekly NRA Jr Rifle Club practice at an indoor range, at our community center. We would stop at Gibson's, a local department store, and I would run in and buy a box of .22 shells for .49 cents.

 

[Chick]

O and Joe were in the white house for 8 YEARS and i never had a problem getting guns, ammo, primers or powder. I dont worry about what folks think or believe might happen. I believe what i see and have seen. This is panic driven due to covid, Minnesota violence and a controversial election and maybe also a result of our trade (war?) with china. That doesnt mean i didnt prepare and buy as much supplies to cover my needs for a couple years. I can still get some of the reloading supplies i want online and occasionally in stores. Dont feed into the panic. Just be patient.

Yeah, I didn't have any trouble either.......if you didn't mind waiting 6-9 months to get it. Uh huh.....

 

[rcs9250]

I bought a Paramount last year so naturally bought bullets and BH209 for it, which was long before the pandemic hit. My LGS is in the midst of a holiday sales program where it started on Sunday as 5% off and each day another 5%. So Monday I got a pound of BH209 (last one they had) and today I’ll pick up a package of 290 bullets at 25% off.
I have a decent supply of centerfire components so I won’t get gouged on that.
Being pretty aggravated over the mass hoarding and price gouging I did something to fuel my passion for shooting. I ordered a $2100.00 air rifle, 5,000 pellets, a 4,500 psi hand pump and a 4,500 psi electric portable compressor. Granted you don’t big game hunt with a .22cal air rifle but most of my shooting is target and squirrel. A friend has a maple syrup farm and squirrels munch on his tubing so I have year round hunting rights there.
The nice thing is I bought 5,000 pellets for less than the cost of four pounds of BH209 or four boxes of ,308WIN Hornady match ammo. I’m about sick and tired of the raping the supply chain is playing. I understand supply and demand but for me enough was enough. It will be a long while till the powder burning industry will see my money.

 

[Half-Cocked]

View attachment 11847I bought a Paramount last year so naturally bought bullets and BH209 for it, which was long before the pandemic hit. My LGS is in the midst of a holiday sales program where it started on Sunday as 5% off and each day another 5%. So Monday I got a pound of BH209 (last one they had) and today I’ll pick up a package of 290 bullets at 25% off.
I have a decent supply of centerfire components so I won’t get gouged on that.
Being pretty aggravated over the mass hoarding and price gouging I did something to fuel my passion for shooting. I ordered a $2100.00 air rifle, 5,000 pellets, a 4,500 psi hand pump and a 4,500 psi electric portable compressor. Granted you don’t big game hunt with a .22cal air rifle but most of my shooting is target and squirrel. A friend has a maple syrup farm and squirrels munch on his tubing so I have year round hunting rights there.
The nice thing is I bought 5,000 pellets for less than the cost of four pounds of BH209 or four boxes of ,308WIN Hornady match ammo. I’m about sick and tired of the raping the supply chain is playing. I understand supply and demand but for me enough was enough. It will be a long while till the powder burning industry will see my money.

To quote that show the mandalorian this may be the way. seriously if the next thing these arms manufacturers want to pull is oh there's a sulfur shortage in Afghanistan and we can't manufacture gunpowder anymore so the cost of your 9 mm box of 50 is going to be $25. We need to think of a new propulsion technology for lead.

That is a sweet setup right there. And there are pCP air rifles that will comfortably take a deer or a bore. I believe it was called The big Texan it's a two-shot 50 caliber PCP air rifle. it literally dumps a quarter of the tank every time you pull the trigger but again it's a hunting rifle capable of taking a deer.

I myself on four hatsan break barrel air rifles. Two chambered in 177 one in 22 and one in 25. I believe the 22 and 25 should be sufficient for squirrel hunting.

 

[Half-Cocked]

I believe they are indeed controlling the market by limiting the supply. you knew there was going to be an ammo shortage you're selling on ammo you're making a butt ton of money. Yet you're unwilling to scale up production new facilities etc like any other business because you know that this ammo buying frenzy will not last. Meaning once ammo buying frenzy is over if you scaled up to be able to create ammo needed for current demand after this is over you will have a surplus and we all know what happens when there is a surplus of goods with less demands prices drop.

 

[eekjellander]

I believe they are indeed controlling the market by limiting the supply. you knew there was going to be an ammo shortage you're selling on ammo you're making a butt ton of money. Yet you're unwilling to scale up production new facilities etc like any other business because you know that this ammo buying frenzy will not last. Meaning once ammo buying frenzy is over if you scaled up to be able to create ammo needed for current demand after this is over you will have a surplus and we all know what happens when there is a surplus of goods with less demands prices drop.

If most guns are outlawed /restricted you won"t need ammo /Ed

 

[Boston Bill]

I believe they are indeed controlling the market by limiting the supply. you knew there was going to be an ammo shortage you're selling on ammo you're making a butt ton of money. Yet you're unwilling to scale up production new facilities etc like any other business because you know that this ammo buying frenzy will not last. Meaning once ammo buying frenzy is over if you scaled up to be able to create ammo needed for current demand after this is over you will have a surplus and we all know what happens when there is a surplus of goods with less demands prices drop.

If it's so easy why don't you put your money where your mouth is. Set up your own ammo factory

 

[snapbang]

I believe the 22 and 25 should be sufficient for squirrel hunting.

I have a cheap Crosman Predator in .177. I cronied the 10.65 gr. pellets at 800 fps. It takes squirrels just fine. Some DRT and some have to do a 20 yard death run before they tip over. But they are dead with a good hit.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

Nice looking FX rcs9250. I've also got many, many thousands of pellets, in .30, .25, .22 and .17 I shoot vermin almost nightly with a .22 Marauder equipped with night vision. Collared Dove with my BSA FT rifle. I used to build high FPE .25 Mrods to kill pigs. I haven't hand pumped in years, too much of a workout for me.
Sportsmans Warehouse here seems to have some ammo, but not much. Have to drive 40 miles for BH209. And I think I bought the last of their BH stock.
I look at it as when we see primers back on the shelves the "shortage" will be coming to an end.

 

[jims]

I have heard the ammo companies are running full speed, just huge demand.
Also those air guns were used by Lewis and Clark.

 

[snapbang]

I have heard the ammo companies are running full speed,

Id bet my last dollar on it. There is money to be made right now an thats what they are in business for. If they can get help they will be turning out ammo as fast as they can.

 

[rcs9250]

Id bet my last dollar on it. There is money to be made right now

And I would be willing to bet that now since they’ve tested the waters and found the shooting public is buying at current prices anyway, these are the NEW prices. The supply chain benefits, we lose.

 

[Squint]

I received an interesting email from Petersons hunting magazine this morning concerning the Ammo shortage. I'm posting it here, couldn't find a different thread to put it under, A kind of explains what's going on.
Squint
December 31, 2020By Joe Ferronato
A pandemic, civil unrest and the fear of a gun-control-happy administration has caused both weapon and ammunition sales to skyrocket in 2020. With more people interested gun ownership and increased ammo hoarding, gun stores have been left barren. Many hunters looking to buy a box of their go-to ammo has been left heartbroken after walking into their local sporting goods store to find nothing but empty shelves.

The events of the past year have led the consumer to believe the only way they will have ammunition is to buy obscene amounts at one time. Your average shooter buys a case while other go so far as to buy pallets, just to ensure they have when they need it. The result is unused ammunition sitting in bulk in your friend’s gun closet instead of on the shelf at your mom-and-pop sporting goods store down the street.

This scenario has led purchasers to believe that there is a shortage of ammunition and there are even rumors that manufacturer’s production rates are down. While there is a shortage on shelves, there is more ammunition being shipped today than ever before. Manufacturers are operating at above-normal capacities and doing everything they can to supply retailers.

“We are running our CCI/Speer and Federal factories 24/7 and shipping products for commercial distribution every day,” said Jason Vanderbrink, President of Federal Ammunition. “We’re also proud to now own and operate the Remington ammunition factory in Lonoke, Arkansas, and are excited to get that great facility back up to full capacity in the coming months. There are a lot of rumors right now about ammunition and components not making their way to retail that are just not true. There are also resellers outside of our customer base who will always try to take advantage of pricing in times of high demand. We are proud to employ thousands of Americans across the country who work hard to make and ship products for hunters, shooters, reloaders and those who protect our communities. The health of our workforce during the pandemic is critical and we are proud to have kept running safely as an essential American business.”


Where did all the rumors of lowered production come from? It is easy to feel like production is down. This pandemic has done its best to shut down the workforce in our country, in pretty much every sector. With that being the case, it is easy to facilitate rumors that the lack of ammo on the shelf was due to lowered production because of the pandemic. The manufactures assured me, though, that just simply isn’t true.



Like Federal, Hornady is running at maximum capacity — manufacturing, producing and shipping ammunition to retailers every day. Unfortunately, due to the added demand — even when facilities are operating at max capacity — retailers can’t keep ammo on the shelves.

“We're shipping more than we've ever shipped,” said Jason Hornady, vice-president of Hornady. “Stuff we make today, we will ship tomorrow. You can only put so much corn in a field. We only have so many strokes we can get out of machines and hours out of employees. Are we increasing capacity? Yeah, of course. But you don't build your business around these kinds of events.”

A common question these manufacturers have heard is: Why don’t you expand and just make more ammo? Seems simple, right? Wrong. While it is easy to sit here on the outside thinking “we want more ammo,” it just isn’t feasible for the companies to expand. Production machines, factory space, shipping facilities and, most importantly, manpower is expensive. If these manufacturers increased their production to accommodate for shortage-causing events, they would lose money every other year. The investment to return ratio would just be way off.

This problem didn’t stem from manufacturers, it came from the consumer. I don’t say this to condemn anyone—as I am just as guilty of stockpiling as the next guy. With words of riots and possible societal breakdown I definitely hit the stores to add a few more rounds to my arsenal—and I was not the only one. The empty shelves are a reflection of our reaction to the events of 2020 and nothing more.



What made this year worse than shortages in the past are the multiple shortage-causing events that took place.

“We were in our fourth year of flatness,” said Hornady. “And the first thing that happened was Walmart decided to stop selling popular ammo. Which started shoving consumers into other places to purchase. Then we had the events in Virginia. (LINK) Then March 14th is when the panic really set in, that was our best shipping month ever. What we had in inventory left the building gone, just gone. We shipped more in that month than we did the first two years I worked here, put together. So then obviously after the COVID stuff started to hit, you had the riots, then you have an election and then you have the person who wins the election happens to be a Democrat. That makes five what would normally be shortage causing demand issues in one year.”

So, when can we expect to see something that resembles normal? Well, that remains to be mystery but speculation in the industry says around two years. Although upcoming events could possibly keep us in a higher demand for a while longer.



It is not a mystery that President-Elect Biden and Vice-President-Elect Harris are no friends to gun owners. If they start to enact gun-control measures as soon as they take office, we could potentially see yet another scenario of higher demand as well, keeping us in this limbo of empty shelves for even longer. With the way the incoming administration has acted towards guns in the past, I am afraid this is what we will be facing come January.

This may not bring the good news you wished to hear, but hopefully it will shed some light on the situation as a whole. And remember, when you’re in the stores and can’t find even a box of your preferred ammo, that the manufactures are operating a maximum capacity to get shipments out the door.

 

[retrieverman]

I’m not sure I believe all that’s in that article, but I guess it’s their story and they’re sticking to it.

As far as ammo and reloading supplies go, I’m good and will let others that didn’t learn from past “shortages” fight for what they need and pay stupid prices.
My cop brother in law is a classic example. I told him in February to buy some 9mm ammo, and I even sent him links to available stock. He didn’t and is now crying to me about not having any, and his department has cut the amount they give him for “training” to 50 rounds a month instead of 100. I love my sister in law, but my brother in law is a moron (and that’s not what I really mean but am being nice so I won’t get “censored”).

 

[rcs9250]

Yeah, the old days and prices are gone, rest assured. The supply will return but these prices are here to stay. I’m going to unload my Paramount and all its extras. Enough is enough.

 

[eekjellander]

I received an interesting email from Petersons hunting magazine this morning concerning the Ammo shortage. I'm posting it here, couldn't find a different thread to put it under, A kind of explains what's going on.
Squint
December 31, 2020By Joe Ferronato
A pandemic, civil unrest and the fear of a gun-control-happy administration has caused both weapon and ammunition sales to skyrocket in 2020. With more people interested gun ownership and increased ammo hoarding, gun stores have been left barren. Many hunters looking to buy a box of their go-to ammo has been left heartbroken after walking into their local sporting goods store to find nothing but empty shelves.

The events of the past year have led the consumer to believe the only way they will have ammunition is to buy obscene amounts at one time. Your average shooter buys a case while other go so far as to buy pallets, just to ensure they have when they need it. The result is unused ammunition sitting in bulk in your friend’s gun closet instead of on the shelf at your mom-and-pop sporting goods store down the street.

This scenario has led purchasers to believe that there is a shortage of ammunition and there are even rumors that manufacturer’s production rates are down. While there is a shortage on shelves, there is more ammunition being shipped today than ever before. Manufacturers are operating at above-normal capacities and doing everything they can to supply retailers.

“We are running our CCI/Speer and Federal factories 24/7 and shipping products for commercial distribution every day,” said Jason Vanderbrink, President of Federal Ammunition. “We’re also proud to now own and operate the Remington ammunition factory in Lonoke, Arkansas, and are excited to get that great facility back up to full capacity in the coming months. There are a lot of rumors right now about ammunition and components not making their way to retail that are just not true. There are also resellers outside of our customer base who will always try to take advantage of pricing in times of high demand. We are proud to employ thousands of Americans across the country who work hard to make and ship products for hunters, shooters, reloaders and those who protect our communities. The health of our workforce during the pandemic is critical and we are proud to have kept running safely as an essential American business.”


Where did all the rumors of lowered production come from? It is easy to feel like production is down. This pandemic has done its best to shut down the workforce in our country, in pretty much every sector. With that being the case, it is easy to facilitate rumors that the lack of ammo on the shelf was due to lowered production because of the pandemic. The manufactures assured me, though, that just simply isn’t true.



Like Federal, Hornady is running at maximum capacity — manufacturing, producing and shipping ammunition to retailers every day. Unfortunately, due to the added demand — even when facilities are operating at max capacity — retailers can’t keep ammo on the shelves.

“We're shipping more than we've ever shipped,” said Jason Hornady, vice-president of Hornady. “Stuff we make today, we will ship tomorrow. You can only put so much corn in a field. We only have so many strokes we can get out of machines and hours out of employees. Are we increasing capacity? Yeah, of course. But you don't build your business around these kinds of events.”

A common question these manufacturers have heard is: Why don’t you expand and just make more ammo? Seems simple, right? Wrong. While it is easy to sit here on the outside thinking “we want more ammo,” it just isn’t feasible for the companies to expand. Production machines, factory space, shipping facilities and, most importantly, manpower is expensive. If these manufacturers increased their production to accommodate for shortage-causing events, they would lose money every other year. The investment to return ratio would just be way off.

This problem didn’t stem from manufacturers, it came from the consumer. I don’t say this to condemn anyone—as I am just as guilty of stockpiling as the next guy. With words of riots and possible societal breakdown I definitely hit the stores to add a few more rounds to my arsenal—and I was not the only one. The empty shelves are a reflection of our reaction to the events of 2020 and nothing more.



What made this year worse than shortages in the past are the multiple shortage-causing events that took place.

“We were in our fourth year of flatness,” said Hornady. “And the first thing that happened was Walmart decided to stop selling popular ammo. Which started shoving consumers into other places to purchase. Then we had the events in Virginia. (LINK) Then March 14th is when the panic really set in, that was our best shipping month ever. What we had in inventory left the building gone, just gone. We shipped more in that month than we did the first two years I worked here, put together. So then obviously after the COVID stuff started to hit, you had the riots, then you have an election and then you have the person who wins the election happens to be a Democrat. That makes five what would normally be shortage causing demand issues in one year.”

So, when can we expect to see something that resembles normal? Well, that remains to be mystery but speculation in the industry says around two years. Although upcoming events could possibly keep us in a higher demand for a while longer.



It is not a mystery that President-Elect Biden and Vice-President-Elect Harris are no friends to gun owners. If they start to enact gun-control measures as soon as they take office, we could potentially see yet another scenario of higher demand as well, keeping us in this limbo of empty shelves for even longer. With the way the incoming administration has acted towards guns in the past, I am afraid this is what we will be facing come January.

This may not bring the good news you wished to hear, but hopefully it will shed some light on the situation as a whole. And remember, when you’re in the stores and can’t find even a box of your preferred ammo, that the manufactures are operating a maximum capacity to get shipments out the door.

They are prudent in not expanding production facilities ,after this Georgia race finishes the stuff your talking about becomes irrelevent ! Kind of like lets increase production of buggy whips , after MR Ford rolled the 1st car off his new fangled assembly line

 

[HandyAndy]

I highly doubt regular ammo prices will ever get below $0.50 per round for centerfire after this election. About the best that can be hoped for is reloading components don't get banned or more regulated/taxed.

I suspect that product liability protections will be stripped from ammo and gun manufacturers. Remember in the dark days of the early 1990s, prohibitive ammo taxes were being talked about. There was also talk about requiring a federal arsenal permit to possess 1000 rounds or more, including .22 long rifle. I can't remember if primers were talked about.

 

[rcs9250]

Archery is looking better everyday.

 

[eekjellander]

Archery is looking better everyday.

I already do that but it is not handy for concealed carry and for self defense a little slow when the other (guy) has a bang stik !