Another 1:48 Twist Accuracy Test Coming

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I wouldn’t do this with the Maxi “Hunters” They don’t have these HUGE DEEP Grooves like the Maxi “Ball” Does. I would clean them up, and Lube all Grooves back up, With as Soft of Lube as you get to Stay on the Bullet :lewis: Like Crisco
Lewis do you think Buck Emmetts lube would be to stiff?
 
Lewis ,

When you mentioned that a bullet with that much lube couldn't shed all of its lube in the barrel and that it was still shedding in flight due to centrifugal force all I could think of how bad a car shakes when the tires are out of balance. I'm glad you stuck with your earlier suspicions and did this test.

AWESOME Description Saxtonyoung! (Car Tire out of Balance) VERY SIMILIAR to What’s happening here :lewis: If a guy were to try a REALLY Thin Lube like Straight Crisco in Both Grooves, I have no doubt it would Shoot Better than my Results this morning, But then you have to Worry about Contaminating the Powder Charge. The Bullet Lube i Shot this Morning is Well Proven Stuff, i would put it up against ANY Lube out there.

Think about TC‘s Bore Butter, And how many people that Don’t know any better That are Sold on it. On a Warm Day that stuff is RUNNY Thin, When someone speaks of having good Luck with Maxi Balls Smothered in Bore Butter, Wherever they are in the World? I bet i can tell you what their Weather was like that Day ;)
 
As per usual, a well-executed plan and test.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and surmise that, at some time in the distant past, Lewis did an exhaustive test - identifying and including all the confounding variables - and found the absolute best paper towel brand - of the best number of plies and softness - which would warmly and comfortably swaddle his lovingly-made bullets, allowing them to take a nice little nap before being put to work. This was done because, in another test, Lewis found that bullets achieved their best accuracy after a one-half to two hour nap (of course, after identifying that if bullets were allowed to nap for over two hours, they were too sluggish to perform adequately.)

sleepy.gif


Furthermore, I shall not be in the least surprised if Lew responds to this post with the archival video of the aforementioned tests. The only question left to be answered: Do bullets sleep better if you sing to them. I am breathless with anticipation at the prospect of hearing Lewis' gravelly-voiced rendition of "Go to Sleep You Little Baby." 😁

All that being said in humor, I want to thank you Lew, and indeed, all you others who take your own time and effort to do these tests, which have the effect of giving dumbasses like me a great starting point to save all the effort and frustration on our part.

Because of these tests, I am going into my first casting session knowing what mold, temperature, lube (both type and how much), size, powder, charge weight, felt wad, and even alloy my 1:48 T/C is likely to perform well with.

I have to stop typing now... I'm getting emotional 🥺
 
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I am not familiar with that Lube at all? I will have to look it up and read about it, Do you know the Recipe for it?
I doubled up on a recipe that I’d found on Art & Science of Bullet Casting. 1 lb of Beeswax, 12.5 oz Crisco 1.5 oz Lanolin 1.5 oz Olive Oil. That’s a new and ”improved” recipe from the original recipe’s formula! I’ve put up a fair amount of fur, but not to many skunks! I’m hoping that’s not your only lube recipe...🤔
 
May very well ha
Thank you for the Kind Words LR_Smoker, I would enjoy that Visit as well, and Welcome it ANYTIME :lewis:
May very well happen next year. I’ve got two preference points for Colorado and providing the pandemic is history I will be there on a muzzleloader hunt for elk. Be a great way to break up the drive and a perfect opportunity to meet the “Professor “. Keep up the super job and stay healthy.
 
As per usual, a well-executed plan and test.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and surmise that, at some time in the distant past, Lewis did an exhaustive test - identifying and including all the confounding variables - and found the absolute best paper towel brand - of the best number of plies and softness - which would warmly and comfortably swaddle his lovingly-made bullets, allowing them to take a nice little nap before being put to work. This was done because, in another test, Lewis found that bullets achieved their best accuracy after a one-half to two hour nap (of course, after identifying that if bullets were allowed to nap for over two hours, they were too sluggish to perform adequately.)

View attachment 9742


Furthermore, I shall not be in the least surprised if Lew responds to this post with the archival video of the aforementioned tests. The only question left to be answered: Do bullets sleep better if you sing to them. I am breathless with anticipation at the prospect of hearing Lewis' gravelly-voiced rendition of "Go to Sleep You Little Baby." 😁

All that being said in humor, I want to thank you Lew, and indeed, all you others who take your own time and effort to do these tests, which have the effect of giving dumbasses like me a great starting point to save all the effort and frustration on our part.

Because of these tests, I am going into my first casting session knowing what mold, temperature, lube (both type and how much), size, powder, charge weight, felt wad, and even alloy my 1:48 T/C is likely to perform well with.

I have to stop typing now... I'm getting emotional 🥺

I don't know JC, Lew has a crazy hair every now and again. If he's going to sing I think it will be along the lines of "Born to be Wild" or a "Boy Named Sue" Then again if he gets to eating those crazy peppers he grows it might be "Magic Carpet Ride". It's hard telling with Lew but I sure ain't seeing anything remotely close to a lullaby.
 
I don't know JC, Lew has a crazy hair every now and again. If he's going to sing I think it will be along the lines of "Born to be Wild" or a "Boy Named Sue" Then again if he gets to eating those crazy peppers he grows it might be "Magic Carpet Ride". It's hard telling with Lew but I sure ain't seeing anything remotely close to a lullaby.

:roll: I guess i am a Little JaGgEd around the Edges :lewis:
 
Very surprising results!
Now you got me thinking.
Why would TC sell something like that if they shot so terrible
Thank you for all the work and effort you put into educating novice like me
There are a pair of brothers from BC, Canada that post on ALR, Daryl & Taylor Sapergia.

They have direct experience from the '70's & '80's with the T/C Maxi-Ball in hunting situations where the slug TUMBLED upon entering both elk and moose. BEFORE THE BULLET ENCOUNTERED BONE!!!

It is why they got rid of their T/C muzzleloaders, and why Taylor started building custom m-l's.

I have read some of their posts in reply to people inquiring about using a Maxi-ball in a slow twist long rifle. IIRC the one post, three consecutive. 50 caliber Maxi-ball slugs in a row tumbled upon striking a moose, with the first two veering so far off course that non-lethal wounds were the result. The final shot also tumbled, but caused enough of a lethal wound to finally bring down the animal. This was at a relatively short range, under 50 yards if I remember correctly, using a 1st Gen T/C Hawken rifle.

Edit:

I am going to take a guess now, and postulate that a lot of the bad press with the T/C Maxi-ball slug is due to the excess factory lube in the upper groove causing instability issues both in flight, and upon impact with game animals. Especially, animals with thicker skins like moose and elk.

And, that the longer the lube dries out due to inventory sitting on shelves unsold, or a box of partially used bullets sitting around in some hunter's range box; the worse the instability issues become.
 
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I believe there’s been a learning curve between T/C and all of use from the 70’s when these guns came out! Lewis sure proved them wrong by lubing the whole bullet. Remembering the Bore Butter greasers! We always shot patched balls then the sabots showed up, making life a little easier! But, it never was the same.
 
Thanks for all of your testing Lewis! It really helps the rest of us out. We are shy on skunks in my neck of the woods and I was wondering what your second best lube recipe is (minus the skunk fat ;))
 
That is great because I have lots of bear fat! I have several rendered jars of it.
What would you add to the bear fat for bullet lube?
Also wondering if you have a GG bullet with 4 or 5 grooves how many of the grooves should have bullet lube in them? I am thinking of a bullet design like a no excuses bullet.
Thanks in advance!
 
I have shot several Lyman Whitworth bullets ( 457121 )with all 7 grooves filled and the Lyman Volunteer (451114) with all 6 grooves filled and had no accuracy issues with either one.
 
I have shot several Lyman Whitworth bullets ( 457121 )with all 7 grooves filled and the Lyman Volunteer (451114) with all 6 grooves filled and had no accuracy issues with either one.

I shoot both of those as well, And They shoot EXCEPTIONALLY WELL! As good as many of my Custom Molds. Their Grease Grooves are MANY, and Fairly Shallow, Which I believe to be the Key to their Success

Here is my Lyman Whitworth Bullet
fcVlXxjm.jpg


The Problem that i see with the TC Maxi Ball is it’s Forward Lube Groove Length, and Depth. This forward Lube Groove is .135 Deep, and .300 in length. The Entire Bullet length for this .50 Maxi of mine is .885 Long, With the Forward Lube Groove Filled, The Bullet is Carrying a LOT of Lube/Weight up Front, And when using a GOOD Bullet Lube such as Beeswax/Lanolin Etc. that Will Hold Good in the Lube Grooves (Reasonably soft, and TACKY) it makes a Recipe for Disaster with a TC Maxi Ball, When the Bullet Exits the Muzzle and ALL of That EXCESS Lube Starts to Shed away, It becomes unbalanced (Like an out of Balance Car Tire as you put it :lewis:)

As i stated earlier, if a guy was to use an ULTRA THIN Lube, Right on the edge of Runny (Like Straight Crisco on a Warm Day) And Fill Both Grooves the best he Could, There is NO DOUBT the Maxi Ball would Shoot MUCH Better than it did for me in my Test above, with my Lube.
 
I believe there’s been a learning curve between T/C and all of use from the 70’s when these guns came out! Lewis sure proved them wrong by lubing the whole bullet. Remembering the Bore Butter greasers! We always shot patched balls then the sabots showed up, making life a little easier! But, it never was the same.

Bore Butter, That stuff is something else :) But I can see it Shooting well on a Warm Day, When it was right on the Edge of Runny (Same as Straight Crisco) This “Runny” Type Lube would “Shed away” From the Bullet IMMEDIATELY Upon Exiting the Muzzle. Instead of “HANGING ON” in the Grooves (Like a GOOD Bullet Lube should do) Riding the Bullet to the Target, Dispersing unevenly, Throwing the Bullet out of Balance

Again, The Problem i see with the TC Maxi Ball, and a GOOD Soft, Tacky Bullet Lube that will Hold in the Grooves, Is the Maxi Ball’s Length and Depth of it’s Forward Lube Groove.
 
That is great because I have lots of bear fat! I have several rendered jars of it.
What would you add to the bear fat for bullet lube?
Also wondering if you have a GG bullet with 4 or 5 grooves how many of the grooves should have bullet lube in them? I am thinking of a bullet design like a no excuses bullet.
Thanks in advance!

Lube ALL of them :lewis: The Problem is NOT with Bullets like those, it’s a “Maxi Ball” Thing

Lanolin, and Beeswax with that Rendered Bear Lard, AWESOME STUFF!! The Beeswax is the Stiffening agent, The Lanolin is “Tacky, Hold in the Grooves” Agent, The Rendered Bear Lard is the Combining SLICKERY Agent :)

I am currently working on a New Lube, it uses NO BEESWAX, according to a few VERY Knowledgeable Folks, Whom i fully Trust what they Say, this stuff is suppose to be a Superior Lube in every way. When i get it Done, Tested, and Feel i have it Down, I will Share it :lewis:
 
Lube ALL of them :lewis: The Problem is NOT with Bullets like those, it’s a “Maxi Ball” Thing

Lanolin, and Beeswax with that Rendered Bear Lard, AWESOME STUFF!! The Beeswax is the Stiffening agent, The Lanolin is “Tacky, Hold in the Grooves” Agent, The Rendered Bear Lard is the Combining SLICKERY Agent :)

I am currently working on a New Lube, it uses NO BEESWAX, according to a few VERY Knowledgeable Folks, Whom i fully Trust what they Say, this stuff is suppose to be a Superior Lube in every way. When i get it Done, Tested, and Feel i have it Down, I will Share it :lewis:
Looking forward to news on the new lube BIG TIME. Skunks are going to be on the endangered species list around here soon if that lube works out for me.
 

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