Another Blackhorn Ignition Problem....

[eazyduzit94]

I have a Thompson Center Pro Hunter FX that was shooting great, until I tried Blackhorn.... All I've heard is how great it is so I wanted to give it a try. I was shooting Triple se7en pellets before and had no issues with accuracy or even much build up at all in the barrel. I read and bought everything recommended from Blackhorns website, their powder, solvents, etc. I cleaned my barrel with their solvents first before my first range trip. The powder was measured by weight on a scale (70gr). At the range I used a cci 209m primer with a barnes tmz bullet. I was careful to make sure the bullet was seated correctly as well. After my first shot I unscrewed the breech plug and looked down the barrel. It left my barrel looking like I smeared tar down it. After several clean, shoot repeats of the same result, I took it home. The gun and breech recieved a thorough cleaning with the BH solvents and I went back to the range. After this trip I had the same result. So the only thing I could think of was try a new breech plug. I contacted TC customer support and they weren't much help besides the "hmm it should work fine with BH, it's not the breech plug", so I bought a brand new breech plug anyway to try. After I tried the new breech plug, still the same results! So I gave up and went back to the Triple se7en. Cleaned with my normal TC stuff, used my normal Kleanbore primers, put my original breech plug back in, etc like I always have. Now after I shoot Triple se7en, I get the same tar smeared barrel. After a few swear words and a calm down period.,I'm now at a loss what to do now. The only thing I could do is buy another pack of primers and more powder.....I don't get how those could be bad because I just bought them. What am I missing here???

 

[CatamountRob]

You tried 2 powders and got the same results, what’s the common denominator? Same bullet/sabot probably and the solvent? I’d start with the solvent. I’d clean it thoroughly with something like Hoppes #9 and shoot it again.

 

[eazyduzit94]

You tried 2 powders and got the same results, what’s the common denominator? Same bullet/sabot probably and the solvent? I’d start with the solvent. I’d clean it thoroughly with something like Hoppes #9 and shoot it again.

I used both TC sabots and Barnes. I used he same TC cleaning supplies I have used for 10yrs to clean the Triple Se7en and Blackhorns brand for theirs. I’ll try the Hoppes I suppose. I don’t know how the cleaning supplies I’ve always used for Triple Se7en would now give me different results?

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

BH209 leaves a fair amount of soot behind. I usually just load and shoot, no cleaning between shots. Many times, loading becomes a little easier than the first load. Before I shoot at the range or before hunting, I use a dry patch, alcohol patch, then another dry patch to remove all the oil from my barrel. I then fire 3 primers to foul the bore and to make sure the breech plug is clear.

I wouldn't worry about it looking like tar, it's more of a slippery type of fouling from my experience.

 

[sdporter]

Don’t clean between shots, clean at the end of the day, or every ten shots, or so.

 

[heymax]

I would go with a Hotter Primer like a 209A Federal

 

[GregK]

I would definitely switch to Hoppe’s solvent
With my guns I like to run a patch coated with brake clean down the barrel than a dry patch to make sure that all oil residue is completely gone.
Doing that has eliminated any misfires at all. I know a lot of people say not to clean between shots and you can do that. I did that for years and for initial testing of Blackhorn 209 when it first came out.
If you look on this forum you will find the procedure from Jeff at Bestill Creations on creating a mix of 50-50 Happys and 91% rubbing alcohol to patch your barrel between shots
I switched to his process this year and I couldn’t believe how much it tight groups.

One other thing I think that I noticed and if I miss read it please forgive me but I thought you said that you were using the same solvents for triple seven and Blackhorn?
I ask because using those regular solvents to clean triple seven never worked for me and just made a bigger mess.
One other thing you might try is to get a bore paste and scrub the bar about 50 times before giving it a regular cleaning and see if that makes any difference.
Just a few thoughts on things you might try if you havent already
Good luck,

Greg

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Try running a brush, with a patch on the tip of it, between shots. The brush will push the patch into the lands and grooves. One pass will get most of the crud out.

Also try firing a primer through the empty barrel before you load it, to make the sure the breech plug hole is clear.

Based on the MSD sheet for Blackhorn209, it contains "esters". That tells me it is actually a type of smokeless powder, with some additives.
The other black powder substitutes and black powder use water-based solvents.
However, Blackhorn209 uses the types of solvents used with smokeless powders.

BH209 is harder to ignite, but the lack of corrosion is worth it in my opinion.
A tight-fitting sabot may help.

 

[GM54-120]

The powder was measured by weight on a scale (70gr). At the range I used a cci 209m primer with a barnes tmz bullet.

That load should be plenty tight in an Encore so the problem is in the plug or the swabbing. I never swab with BH209 but the Bestill 50/50 Hoppes/Iso-HEET would be a good swabbing solution.

So that leaves the plug. I think the FX plug has a 1/8" flash CHANNEL. You need to clean it with a drill bit occasionally and keep solvents OUT OF IT. Solvent and any carbon just makes it a better heat sink.

If your plug looks like this it should be fine with BH209....Speed Breech 3

 

[Chick]

Hoppes #9 to clean the BH209. What the fella told you about cleaning your plug with a drill bit is right on. When I start shooting at the first of the season, I don't clean my barrel until the season is over..

 

[Chick]

Don’t clean between shots, clean at the end of the day, or every ten shots, or so.

I have shot close to 200 rounds, with the BH209, without cleaning or losing accuracy. There was a guy on this forum that claimed to have shot over 2000 rounds, without cleaning. I know my rifle does not group as well with a clean barrel, as it does after 3 shots.

 

[HOOKJAW]

First time post for me....hope this helps. After many years of serious trial and error on the range I believe that BlackHorn 209 is the best powder ever developed for inlines..(so far). With that said, let me say this. As most on this forum know, when it comes to consistant performance with inlines...the devil is in the details. DO Not swab between shots with Blackhorn! Those smears you describe are probably from residual solvent. Before taking your first shot at the range foul your clean ,dry barrel with 3-4 primers. Your primer choice CCI209 M is correct (Fed 209A also good). The fact that you weigh BH is also important. After about 12 rounds I remove breech plug on my Tc pro hunter and inspect and cgive a quick clean with welder torch pin and 1/8 bit. A can of compressed air with stick valve is handy to blow out residue. At this point , I may (optional) run a DRY boresnake once down the barrel. Once you get a "system" for BH you will never go back to other powders IMO. At end of day clean as you would a centerfire. I like Hoppes or Butches Boreshine....The BH solvent odor is really strong. Good luck

 

[MSalyards]

I NEVER swab between shots with BH. Your title says "Ignition Problems" Are your shots failing to fire? How is your accuracy?Clean whatever you are storing your barrel with out with the alcohol as stated above or a simple Windex with ammonia and pop a couple caps to dry the barrel, keep your breech plug clean every 10 - 15 shots and enjoy shooting your gun . I have shot over 60 shots using this method before cleaning with NO problems. And if your gun fires quit looking down the barrel till you clean it!

 

[sdporter]

Make no mistake, BH209 IS DIRTY!!!! The fouling is so soft though and of such a small size, that most of the time it’s not gonna make a difference in that barrel. Some bullet/powder combos I may only get three shots before the flyers start, others I might get five or six, If I’m working on a load, I shoot my first shot from a clean, dry, primer fouled bore, then I shoot a three or four shot group depending on the confidence I feel in each shot. I want to know what’s gonna happen out in the field if I get (or am forced) to take multiple shots.
Here is a target I shot with three different guns, a couple of nights before our MZ hunt opened, to check zero and make a couple of last minute adjustments in the two rifles my boys were going to use. It was also my inaugural outing with my flat nose version of a Snover style bullet.The shot circled in green was the first, clean, primer fouled bore, shot. The three circled in yellow are the next three bullets, fired without swabbing. I dialed DOWN 3” and shot the three circled in white. This was my Flat Nose Snover using my .451 White and 80 gns Swiss powder. Four shots is max I’ll get with this load before I clean.
The nine shots in the blue were shot with an Accura and an old Optima. The three horizontal shots at the bottom were the Optima, I dialed up and shot the next two on the centerline. The three vertical shots left of center were the Accura, I dialed over and shot the highest shot closest to the bullseye and ran out of daylight. Target was just paced off at 90 yards, and those two guns were loaded with 90V grains of BH209. It’s a small sample size I know, but it appears the more I shot the Optima, tge better it was gonna group

 

[sam-arkie]

My Paramount .45 groups best with a fouled barrel and one dry patch run through the barrel after each shot. In hunting situations it shoots just fine without swabbing the barrel, but off the bench it shoots just a little better if I run a single dry patch down the barrel one time.

Also, the first shot down a clean barrel will be high and a little to the left, it's very consistent about this.

 

[rcs9250]

Hoppes #9 to clean the BH209. What the fella told you about cleaning your plug with a drill bit is right on. When I start shooting at the first of the season, I don't clean my barrel until the season is over..

For those that aren’t familiar with the manufacturing world, drill bits come in four different size groupings. There’s fractional, number, letter and metric. Those four groups have various sizes, some are redundant between groups. With the variety available it’s fairly probable to find a drill that fits the different diameters in your breech plug.
There is a machine shop device called a pin vise that comes in different grip ranges that are very handy for holding the tiny drills so you can easily spin them between your fingers. I also keep a welders oxy/acetylene torch tip cleaner handy, it has a variety of sizes and folds up very nicely to protect them when not in use.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I think ive broke more bits with my pin vices than anything else. But its the best way to hold those little guys.

 

[scratcherky]

Why put up with the expense and ignition problems of BH209 when 777 is a superior powder I guess it just drinking that BH209 kool-aid.

 

[rcs9250]

My Paramount .45 groups best with a fouled barrel and one dry patch run through the barrel after each shot. In hunting situations it shoots just fine without swabbing the barrel, but off the bench it shoots just a little better if I run a single dry patch down the barrel one time.

Also, the first shot down a clean barrel will be high and a little to the left, it's very consistent about this.

When you say “fouled” barrel, what is your method of fouling ?

 

[sam-arkie]

When you say “fouled” barrel, what is your method of fouling ?

I put in about 1/3 of a normal charge of Blackhorn powder and one of the many bullets I've acquired over the years, that I don't use anymore, and shoot it. When I went to Nebraska hunting 2 weeks ago I fired it off and ran a single patch through it the afternoon before we hit the road, then loaded it up for hunting the next morning. We were staying in a motel and didn't figure the other guests would appreciate me fouling the barrel at 4 in the morning.