Another question about wads

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The punch is a huge plus since you can use other materials too. Not just expensive hard pressed felt. You can get 1000 SageBrush felt wads on Amazon for $40 shipped if you got Prime. $5 shipping if you dont have Prime. Thats a ton of wads. Sell off what you dont need for $6-7/100 shipped. Thats a good price for wads.
https://www.sageoutfitters.com/catalog/item/7209324/7463762.htm
 
I shoot around 2000 loads a year counting MZ and BPCR , and still is easier to me , to just buy them. Like the man said unless you like to tinker
 
I shoot around 2000 loads a year counting MZ and BPCR , and still is easier to me , to just buy them. Like the man said unless you like to tinker

I fully agree Bob! 2000 Wads is a LOT of Hammering/Punching, it’s MUCH Easier to buy them already made. Even though i own ALL of these Punches, and Bulk Wool Felt Material, I stil buy them already made if i spot a Deal on them, As much as i shoot, i go through a Small Mountain of them. My most Recent Deal was on Utah Gun Exchange, i bought 500 1/8” .50 Cal Wool Wads for 10 bucks Shipped to my Door, There is NO WAY i could make them even Close to that Cheap.
 
Those of you who prefer to buy wads, Eastern Maine Shooting Supply usually has a 50% off Black Friday sale. I usually load up on cleaning patches, round ball patches, and lubed wool wads every November.
 
Eastern Maine Shooting Supply's Black Friday 50% off sales code is: 50off
If you shoot big bore PRB's like me, they have pre-cut patches up to .81 cal
 
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These are the ones i use the most, I get mine from Buffalo Arms Co. since i live so close. As for Pre attaching them, i have never tried that? It only takes me an Extra few Seconds to Send the Wad down on it’s own, Then the Bullet. I look at it this way, My Rifle is Already Loaded while Hunting, With a Muzzleloader you usually only get 1 Shot, And then a Reload, So you are only Dealing with the Over Powder Wad 1 time, in the Reload. It is VERY unlikely that you will make more than 2 Shots in a Hunting Situation, Not saying it isn’t possible, Just not likely
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These are the ones i use the most, I get mine from Buffalo Arms Co. since i live so close. As for Pre attaching them, i have never tried that? It only takes me an Extra few Seconds to Send the Wad down on it’s own, Then the Bullet. I look at it this way, My Rifle is Already Loaded while Hunting, With a Muzzleloader you usually only get 1 Shot, And then a Reload, So you are only Dealing with the Over Powder Wad 1 time, in the Reload. It is VERY unlikely that you will make more than 2 Shots in a Hunting Situation, Not saying it isn’t possible, Just not likely
thnP8Ael.jpg
These are the ones i use the most, I get mine from Buffalo Arms Co. since i live so close. As for Pre attaching them, i have never tried that? It only takes me an Extra few Seconds to Send the Wad down on it’s own, Then the Bullet. I look at it this way, My Rifle is Already Loaded while Hunting, With a Muzzleloader you usually only get 1 Shot, And then a Reload, So you are only Dealing with the Over Powder Wad 1 time, in the Reload. It is VERY unlikely that you will make more than 2 Shots in a Hunting Situation, Not saying it isn’t possible, Just not likely
thnP8Ael.jpg
In a former thread, I recall you saying that you had a bad experience pushing a felt wad down with the bullet. Can you explain what happened? I can't see where it would make any difference?
 
In a former thread, I recall you saying that you had a bad experience pushing a felt wad down with the bullet. Can you explain what happened? I can't see where it would make any difference?

I believe you are talking about a Vegetable Fibre Wad? That is the Only time I remember having an issue, and that was with a Paper Patched Bullet as well. I have had no problems of ANY kind with Wool, I stil load the Wad Separately Just Because i prefer to Feel each step.

The problem i had was as follows: I started the Vegetable Fibre Wad (Hard Card, they Load Fairly Stiff) The card was no more than an inch down the Bore, i Then pushed the Paper Patch Bullet down on Top of the Vege Wad, Then pushed them Both Together to the Powder. Somewhere down the Bore i Pushed the Bullet Through the Paper Jacket, And since i was pushing both the Bullet and Wad Down together I did NOT feel anything different? I felt the Steady Resistance of the Vege Fibre Wad. Had i of Loaded each Separately (As i do now) I would EASILY have felt the Bullet push through the Jacket.

These Particular Paper Patched bullets were Bad for Cutting the Papers at the Base, They are a Swaged Cupped Base Bullet and have RAZOR Sharp Base edges from the Swaging process. I had to Lightly take this RAZOR edge off with a De-Burring Tool, i have never had a Problem Since, and i shoot these Bullets to 600 Yards VERY ACCURATELY
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As for a Grease Groove Bullet and Wool Wad Going down together, I see no problems with that at all. I am simply a DIEHARD in my Ways, I stil Prefer to Push each Separately, so i can Feel each go Down. I dump my Powder Charge, Then push my Wad Down and give it a Decent Push on the Powder, Then i load my Bullet. Just my way of doing things :lewis: I started Loading this way after the Situation above
 
As for a Grease Groove Bullet and Wool Wad Going down together, I see no problems with that at all. I am simply a DIEHARD in my Ways, I stil Prefer to Push each Separately, so i can Feel each go Down. I dump my Powder Charge, Then push my Wad Down and give it a Decent Push on the Powder, Then i load my Bullet. Just my way of doing things :lewis: I started Loading this way after the Situation above
My bad; now I understand.
And as you stated, I have used a GG bullet to push down a felt wad without any problems. However, I have only tried .50 cal. wads in my .50 cal. rifle, resulting in no improvement in accuracy. So, my next move is to purchase .54 cal. wads and try them, as you have suggested. Thanks for the clarification.
 
My bad; now I understand.
And as you stated, I have used a GG bullet to push down a felt wad without any problems. However, I have only tried .50 cal. wads in my .50 cal. rifle, resulting in no improvement in accuracy. So, my next move is to purchase .54 cal. wads and try them, as you have suggested. Thanks for the clarification.

What Bullets are you using? What powder? Lube?

Suggestions: if your lube is Thick, Try thinning it Down. Get it the Consistency where it just Barely Holds in the Grooves, in other words on the Messy Side. A thinner lube has ALWAYS been better for me. Lube plays a Big Role in Accuracy, it can make a BIG Difference!

Check that Bullet Bases are Sharp, and they all weigh within 1 Grain, And your Powder Charges are all identical. Consistency is Key, Make EVERY shot as Close as you POSSIBLY can to the Shot before it. Swab the Bore Between Shots With isopropyl Alcohol. 1, maybe 2 Damp patches, then 2-3 Dry patches. Think Consistency, keep EVERYTHING the Same!
 
What Bullets are you using? What powder? Lube?

Suggestions: if your lube is Thick, Try thinning it Down. Get it the Consistency where it just Barely Holds in the Grooves, in other words on the Messy Side. A thinner lube has ALWAYS been better for me. Lube plays a Big Role in Accuracy, it can make a BIG Difference!

Check that Bullet Bases are Sharp, and they all weigh within 1 Grain, And your Powder Charges are all identical. Consistency is Key, Make EVERY shot as Close as you POSSIBLY can to the Shot before it. Swab the Bore Between Shots With isopropyl Alcohol. 1, maybe 2 Damp patches, then 2-3 Dry patches. Think Consistency, keep EVERYTHING the Same!
Thanks for wanting to help out, but for lack of time right now I won't go into specifics beyond the basics. The main quarry is elk, most within 80 yards, plus mule deer and antelope at longer ranges. TC SS Omega .50 cal, original synthetic stock bedded and free floated, Eabco peeprib mount with Leupold scope/Williams rear peep with front post sight, bullets homecast from a homemade mold 420 grain wide flat nose with a tumble lube called Ben's Liquid Lube, BH 209 100 grains volume, no improvement with either .50 cal felt or card wads. I work hard at consistency in all aspects of the game and it is not unusual for me to get sub moa groups with my centerfires, but not so with muzzleloaders. If I decide to continue banging my head against a very hard brick wall, my next move this winter (besides trying the .54 cal. felt wads) will be to remove the QLA, recrown, and reposition the front sight. Being a low budget, do-it-myself, ultra amateur/redneck machinist, it's going to take a while.............
 
Thanks for wanting to help out, but for lack of time right now I won't go into specifics beyond the basics. The main quarry is elk, most within 80 yards, plus mule deer and antelope at longer ranges. TC SS Omega .50 cal, original synthetic stock bedded and free floated, Eabco peeprib mount with Leupold scope/Williams rear peep with front post sight, bullets homecast from a homemade mold 420 grain wide flat nose with a tumble lube called Ben's Liquid Lube, BH 209 100 grains volume, no improvement with either .50 cal felt or card wads. I work hard at consistency in all aspects of the game and it is not unusual for me to get sub moa groups with my centerfires, but not so with muzzleloaders. If I decide to continue banging my head against a very hard brick wall, my next move this winter (besides trying the .54 cal. felt wads) will be to remove the QLA, recrown, and reposition the front sight. Being a low budget, do-it-myself, ultra amateur/redneck machinist, it's going to take a while.............

Don’t take this the Wrong way, but I’m gonna Rant for a Minute :)

I immediately say QLA is likely your problem, In fact i would bet on it!! TC’s QLA Ruined me from ever Trusting such a Thing, I had a TC Hawken, and a New Englander with QLA Muzzles, Both Shot ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, The Worst I have ever Shot in my Life. It’s a wonder that I didn’t give up on the Hobby before Realizing what the Problem was? I hear that CVA is supposed to be better? But truth is, I wouldn’t spend a Dime on Even their Paramount Rifle Due to it having Their Form of QLA (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) I cannot for the Life of me Understand Why a Co. would do such a Thing to the Muzzle of a Rifle??? There is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from it, ONLY NEGATIVE. I want my Rifling to the Crown, the ONLY Way i will Have it :lewis: I have walked by SEVERAL Nice Old TC Hawken’s at Pawn Shops that Had QLA Muzzles, in fact i look at the Muzzles first, if i see a QLA I don’t even Bother looking at the Price Tag, Whatever it is? It’s to much!

There’s my Rant on QLA’s :D I DESPISE EM!!!

Until you remove the QLA Muzzle, I would advise AGAINST the Use of an Over Powder Wad, Even Though I ABSOLUTELY Swear by the Use of them, I found they WORSENED Groups BADLY due to the QLA. I watched Bullets Plow through the Ground a few Feet in Front of the Target, And other Shots were not even Findable? No idea where they went? I’m not convinced we were safe standing behind the Gun? That Bad!

Cut that QLA off and Re-Crown, I am CONFIDENT you will see a HUGE Difference :lewis:
 
Or maybe Bens liquid tumble lube is your culprit. Lubes do funny things with muzzle loaders.
 
Or maybe Bens liquid tumble lube is your culprit. Lubes do funny things with muzzle loaders.

Suggestions: if your lube is Thick, Try thinning it Down. Get it the Consistency where it just Barely Holds in the Grooves, in other words on the Messy Side. A thinner lube has ALWAYS been better for me. Lube plays a Big Role in Accuracy, it can make a BIG Difference!

As i said here, and ALWAYS say, it can make a HUGE Difference!
 
Don’t take this the Wrong way, but I’m gonna Rant for a Minute :)

I immediately say QLA is likely your problem, In fact i would bet on it!! TC’s QLA Ruined me from ever Trusting such a Thing, I had a TC Hawken, and a New Englander with QLA Muzzles, Both Shot ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE, The Worst I have ever Shot in my Life. It’s a wonder that I didn’t give up on the Hobby before Realizing what the Problem was? I hear that CVA is supposed to be better? But truth is, I wouldn’t spend a Dime on Even their Paramount Rifle Due to it having Their Form of QLA (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) I cannot for the Life of me Understand Why a Co. would do such a Thing to the Muzzle of a Rifle??? There is ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT from it, ONLY NEGATIVE. I want my Rifling to the Crown, the ONLY Way i will Have it :lewis: I have walked by SEVERAL Nice Old TC Hawken’s at Pawn Shops that Had QLA Muzzles, in fact i look at the Muzzles first, if i see a QLA I don’t even Bother looking at the Price Tag, Whatever it is? It’s to much!

There’s my Rant on QLA’s :D I DESPISE EM!!!

Until you remove the QLA Muzzle, I would advise AGAINST the Use of an Over Powder Wad, Even Though I ABSOLUTELY Swear by the Use of them, I found they WORSENED Groups BADLY due to the QLA. I watched Bullets Plow through the Ground a few Feet in Front of the Target, And other Shots were not even Findable? No idea where they went? I’m not convinced we were safe standing behind the Gun? That Bad!

Cut that QLA off and Re-Crown, I am CONFIDENT you will see a HUGE Difference :lewis:
Wow; why don't you tell us how you really feel?!!
Ok, you've nudged me in the direction of tooling up to recrown. Probably won't begin to happen until after the first of the year, though. Do you have a preferred style and angle? After somewhat limited research, I DON'T consider the conventional 17 degree crown to be anything sacred, even if I had the ability to accurately cut it (I do not). What scares me more than anything is drilling and tapping the front sight hole.
 
Wow; why don't you tell us how you really feel?!!
Ok, you've nudged me in the direction of tooling up to recrown. Probably won't begin to happen until after the first of the year, though. Do you have a preferred style and angle? After somewhat limited research, I DON'T consider the conventional 17 degree crown to be anything sacred, even if I had the ability to accurately cut it (I do not). What scares me more than anything is drilling and tapping the front sight hole.

TC’s QLA is HORRIBLE, and VERY well known “Problem Child” Lot’s of reading about them Deep in this Forum, and every other Forum i know of. They claim they will shoot Sabots fine? I wish i stil had 1 of the QLA Barrels i mention above, Just so I could show on Video how HORRIBLE They can be with an Over Powder Wad, What i witnessed with 2 Different QLA Cut Barrels, and 2 Different Men Shooting them was UNREAL.

As for the Crown Degree, I Honestly Don’t know? My Rice 1:20 Twist .45 Cal Barrel has a VERY SMALL Beveled Crown, They just Barely Broke the Edge. I want to Say that I’ve heard 11 Degree? But i just don’t Remember? So don’t Quote me on it. I’m NOT a Barrel Smith/Tech Guy, i just Shoot em :)

I had Jim Carpenter of St Maries Idaho Build me a Barrel Last year, I remember asking Jim what he used for the Crown Bevel? He said “You are gonna Laugh when i tell ya” He used NOTHING More than a Cone Shape Grinding Stone like this. His Crown/Bevel is Noticeably Deeper than My Rice, My Green Mountain’s are kinda in between i guess? I really Don’t think it matters? Hopefully someone more Knowledgeable in this Area will Chime in. I would ask Jeff Bestill, and 52bore on here, Those Guy’s will DEFINITELY Know, i would 100% Trust what they Say :lewis:
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Or maybe Bens liquid tumble lube is your culprit. Lubes do funny things with muzzle loaders.
As i said here, and ALWAYS say, it can make a HUGE Difference!
In an effort to simplify the lubing process, I've been using Ben's Liquid Lube (BLL), and it seems to work as well as my former lube, LBT Blue. The BLL tumble lube is incredibly easier to apply and doesn't gum up my sizing dies. So, if removing the Omega's QLA doesn't help, then I'll look into trying other lubes.
I bought a stick of Nassau lube a few years ago - anyone know if it works on BH209?
 
#1, You want BP compatible. I'm not sure if that is or not. Good lubes will make a big difference though. And personally I would try different lubes and bullets before I started sawing on my gun. Just me though, ask around what others are using.,
 

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