I know I'm rambling but with my newish cva scout smokeless conversion I have failed to get great groups with the stouter lods alot of the other guys shoot out of those same guns. I dropped back to 45 gr. of Imr 4227 and a barnes 250 tez bullet and wool wad and it shoots 3/4" groups at 104 yds. thats a very mild load , but dont use any of that type powder in a non smokeless gun, I'm just saying I have never had any luck shooting a stout load out of anything, and have wasted alot of money trying, lol