Barrel Nut Rem Smokeless

[Kimber.204]

I'm looking to get a smokeless muzzleloader.
I see on Hank's website the Savage and Rem prefits. I've used barrel nuts on other rifles for the convenience of swapping them myself. Is there any reason not to do a barrel nut prefit? Other than the cosmetic issue?
Thanks
Ross

 

[GM54-120]

The barrel is not as large of a OD as a regular Rem barrel. Its roughly the OD of a Savage small shank.

 

[Kimber.204]

Sure, I understand that. Does that translate to reduced loads compared to a shouldered barrel?
Is it still a 500yd gun with a barrel nut?
Is it a 300yd gun with a barrel nut?

 

[billyboy*]

Yes, it translates to reduced loads but still plenty of Power past 400 yards. I believe 70 Grs of 4198 with 275 Gr bullets in the .45 Cal is considered max?
I have a Savage Model 10 CF Small Shank .45 Cal that uses 65 Grs of N120 with the 275 Gr Barnes XPB at 2,780 fps.

 

[D55]

Small shank are easy 500+ yd. shooters. I watched a young man sight in an Encore last month out to 440yds with moa accuracy. He was shooting I believe 62gr IMR4198 and 300gr Aeromax @ 2600fps with HIS lrmp modules.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The 1.055", or 1.062" barrel shank with the adjustable nut will give you velocities near a 30-06 with a 275 grain Parker BE bullet.

The 1.200", or 1,250" barrel shanks will give velocities closer to that of a 300 Win Mag with the same bullet.


(2) Smokeless Muzzle Loader: 275 grain bullet @ 3,000 fps - YouTube

Arrowhead Rifles also has the parts you need.

 

[Kimber.204]

Thanks for the input everyone!
Realistically I won't get any shots beyond 300-350 yards here in western and central PA where I typically hunt.
Most of my shots have been under 50 yards or over 250 yards (woods versus fields).

As I said, I don't prefer the look of the barrel nuts, but I would appreciate the lighter weight when hauling it up onto the mountain for a day of Bear or Deer hunting.
Thanks,
Ross

 

[JBushnell]

I am relatively new to this game as well, so take my words for what they're worth, but...

You are getting good advice above. if you build a remage (or savage small shank) you need to know that you won't be able to run with the big-dogs, but that isn't really much of a step down when you compare their performance to non-SMLs.

Remington actions are hard to find these days, but maybe you have a donor rifle? Savage actions are easier to find and can also be self-assembled as they are headspaces with a barrel nut. I had a Savage 223 Varminter (small shank) that I used to build a .45 caliber SML using Arrowhead Rifle's Brux barrel and parts. I am getting sub-moa out to 400 yards (max distance at my range). In fact, the number of groups that I've shot sub-moa outnumbers the groups that were not.

Lastly, I opted for the muzzle brake on my Brux, and glad I did...

Arrowhead Rifles

 

[Kimber.204]

Yeah, I've noticed that the Rem 700's have dried up a bit (since the bankruptcy). But I think I may still be able to find a donor action.
I'm not opposed to Savages, but I have stocks, triggers, and bottom metals in the shop for Rem 700's already.

I also have a Bighorn SR3 that is currently a 6.5 PRC that I pieced together with used components. It looks awesome, shoots awesome, but weighs a lot more than I'd like it to for my style of hunting. I'm half temped to pull that apart and use that action for the build. These Bighorn actions have a Rem 700 footprint, but have Savage Small Shank Barrel threads. I'm going to look around locally here and see what I can find.

Regards,
Ross

 

[GM54-120]

Consider this, an Encore or the 45-70 conversions for rifle like the Scout or Hunter are 1" OD and max is typically no more than 65gr of 4198. Less if using a 300gr bullet. IIRC Hankins mentions 65gr max for his prefits using a 275gr. Surely the man has recommended load data for his prefits?

As far as N120 it makes way more pressure than 4198 grain for grain. Just compare speed and traces. 60gr of N120 will get a 200gr sabot load out of a 45 at over 2800fps. 4198 wont give you anywhere near that. 65gr of N120 and a 275gr is a hot load for a small shank. Its even up there for a 1.2 OD barrel. Well over 45Kpsi. Probably pushing 50Kpsi.

55gr of N120 and a 300gr is good for around 2400fps and making roughly 44Kpsi. 58gr of 4198 with the same bullet is only about 36.5Kpsi and close to the same speed.

You can expect a little more speed and peak using LRMP module systems. So while i love N120 use it with caution. You can clearly see the difference when using load data like 45-70. N120 is quite a bit hotter.
https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/45-70RugerNo1.pdf

 

[GM54-120]

As far as range, punch in the numbers. A 300gr (.300-.320 BC) bullet like a Pittman, Fury, Parker or ASG leaving the barrel at say 2500fps is easily good for 400yards or more.
https://www.hornady.com/team-hornady/ballistic-calculators/#!/

 

[Danno]

For 25 years+ in the area I hunt, nearly all deer I've taken have been less than 100 yards. Is such the case for most hunters? Especially white tail? And yet, I built a 700ml conversion which has a barrel 1.25" for SEVEN inches and have never needed a load for T-Rex. What was I thinking? My .45 converted 10mlII can more than adequately take anything the 700ml has taken.

 

[GM54-120]

Here is Hanks post about the Remage prefits. About 65gr of 4198 is recommended and that is good for right around 2600fps. 2nd page has some 66gr 4198 loads listed with chrono data.
https://hanksmessageboard.freeforums.net/thread/1901/remington-barrels-hankins-custom-rifles

 

[Kimber.204]

Thanks @GM54-120 I'll review that info. There is so much info on these various forums that even searching for it can be cumbersome as you have to wade through all the......"less helpful" information.

 

[GM54-120]

The Remage will certainly get er done if you can work within it limitations. Given enough barrel length there are a few other slower powders too that will give more speed at safe pressures. You just need to burn more of it. 4198 though is very good overall and well documented by many SML owners. You can be pretty confident around 65gr and upto a 300gr bullet is not gunna be some crazy hot load. BUT if you want a heavier bullet look at some of the other powders. Like H322 or 10X just as examples.

 

[Kimber.204]

Thanks again for everyone's help. A forum member saw my posts and reached out to me since they were getting ready to sell a SML. He was (relatively) local and we met up today. Now I'm just waiting on my loading accessories to be delivered!!!

 

[billyboy*]

I didn’t realize that VV N120 was that much more Energetic than H4198. QL says 65 grains with 275 Gr Bullets is approximately 41k psi???

 

[Kimber.204]

Well I have all my loading accessories accept some bullets. I ordered some 45cal XTP's to start with from Optics Planet about 4 weeks ago. Then I get an email today saying that my order is almost ready and they expect it to ship in......3 to 6 Months!!!

Order Canceled....new order placed with Midway (who now had them in stock). Maybe I'll get to warm the barrel up some next week!

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The jacket is much thicker on the Hornady XTP bullets when compared to the Parker BE bullets I normally use, which means you may have to size them in steps. I use a paste lube on them and wipe it off before loading. I have gotten some really great groups out of the 300 grain XTP bullets at 300 yard, which was a nice surprise.

Make sure you do not oversize the bullets, because you need a little resistance to get the powder to burn correctly.
You may want to do just a few bullets at a time until you can get your sizer set correctly. The bullets will get just a little tighter after the barrel is fouled slightly.

 

[Kimber.204]

@HV-Muzzleloaders Thanks for the info. I'd like to get some 275gr Parkers, but they are out of stock. I may just get some of the 250gr (the XTP's that I have coming are 250gr also).

I already have some Redding/Imperial wax on hand, so I'll try that. Do folks typically use wax/lube on the Parker bullets as well?