Bestill Creations part 3 blackhorn

[bestill]

 

[01Foreman400]

Thanks for the videos. They were very informative. Do you think it could be dangerous shooting a factory muzzleloader to try and pack as much powder in the volume tube up to 120 gr. As in tapping it or trickling it in like you did in the video when you got more weighed powder in the tube.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Quite enjoyable.

 

[Idaholewis]

Good Stuff as Usual Jeff In the End, For the Guy that takes His Target shooting serious, the WEIGHT Scales mean Quite a Bit

I know what i am Doing is a Bit Different (Real Blackpowder) But fact is, i have NEVER Trusted a Volume Measure for Consistency, For the SAME reasons you show at the End of Your Video. I get a Volume Average (the best i can) and From then on i weigh Each Charge by Weight to the 1/10th of a Grain. I have been doing this from my Very Beginning in Muzzleloading, It just made better sense to me. My Results Clearly Show that what I’ve been Doing Works Quite well

 

[sdporter]

Loved every minute. Makes total sense to me, no matter the powder. It all depends on how you shake it into the powder measure from the jug. I shook out two different loads of Pyrodex p at 80 gns volume and got 4 grains weight difference. That’s 5% difference. Anybody who’s been at this very long knows what difference a grain can make in a smokeless cartridge gun. I weigh all my charges for front stuffers, but I never thought to do a ten load average, I usually measure out 1 volume charge of the Max I feel I want to shoot, 1 volume charge of the minimum I feel I want to shoot, weigh them each, decide how many different groups I want to shoot, do a little division and then weigh out the charges to take to the range. The average would fine tune it a little better.
Rambling I know. Thanks for the video!

 

[edmehlig]

Ditto to what both Lew and Sdporter said! If you want to squeeze the most out of your ML to obtain the best accuracy possible then what you showed in your video is the way to do it no matter what powder you use. I for one and I know I speak for all of us on MM we appreciate the time and effort you and Idaholewis spend in creating your videos! As the ole saying goes a picture/video is worth a thousand words.

 

[Idaholewis]

I gave my Nice Volume Measure To Sabotloader

Jeff’s explanation of BH209 Powder Lots, and how he goes about getting an Average, Then Weighing to take the Variable out of the Volume Measure is DARN Good Stuff, and has made Good Sense to me from my Very Beginning in Muzzleloading.

I understand what i am about to say in this paragraph is Different, Yet leads to the Same thing. I came in to Muzzleloading from a Lifelong background of Handloading 1,000 Yard and Beyond Precision Centerfire, I have handloaded For CF Nearly all of my Life (Started when i was 14-15 Yrs Old) So when i came in to Muzzleloading I brought All of Those years of knowledge along, Namely Weighing my Powder Charges, as it just made the best sense to me. I asked myself “Would i trust a Volume Measure with my CF’s? A device that was Designed to get you “Close Enough for field use” My immediate answer was ABSOLUTELY NOT! My next Question was “What makes my Muzzleloaders Different?” Are they Magically suppose to Compensate for Charge discrepancy’s that a Volume Measure can Throw?” Again my answer was Obviously NOT! My Goal in this Stuff is to Pull the Most Accuracy i can possibly get out of each and every one of my Rifles, Therefore i take out EVERY Possible Variable i can, I want EVERY Shot as Close as i can possibly make it to the Shot before it.

I get a kick out of Guy’s that Act like Precisely Weighing Powder Charges is a BIG DEAL, Time Consuming Etc. Fact is, for me anyway, I find it FAR easier in the End, Especially if you know the Load for a Particular Rifle you plan to Shoot, I don’t have to Fiddle/Faddle Around with a Volume measure each time i Load and except “Close Enough” or Hope that i was Consistent to get “Close Enough”, My Charges are Already PRECISELY done to the 1/10th of a Grain, And Ready to Load.

And last, if you don’t think that Several Grains Difference you CAN Get from a Volume Measure (Last part of Jeff’s Video) will Negatively effect anything? Test your Drops at Longer Ranges of Say 300-500 Yards and Report Back Obviously the Key to the Best possible “Consistency” with Volume Measure Powder Drops is Being Consistent in how you do it, as Bestill Shows in His Video with his Catch Pail, and his Technique of Pouring over, Then Cutting the Top off. But look what happened when he lightly tapped the measure, He came up with a BIG DIFFERENCE of over 4 Grains! A good Weight Scale takes that Possible BIG DIFFERENCE out of the Equation.

 

[deerlessbob]

Just had a chance to watch the video. Really appreciate it, Jeff. Had no idea lot number differences were so big.

 

[45-70]

so set my beam scale and weighed every load, assuming lot 34 by my volume scale set at 120 weighs 86 grains. So by same method if different lot will have to do it again.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Last night vials were quickly loaded from lot 95 using an old RCBS Uniflow powder drop. Charge was supposedly 95 grain Blackhorn, but who really knows? Weight of these loads is unknown; a scale wasn't used. Shooting this morning was at 203 yard. After 6 shots, after scope adjustment; 6 more shots were made. These last six shots grouped at 2½", and were mostly in the red.

Should one have weighed these loads?

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I gave my Nice Volume Measure To Sabotloader

Jeff’s explanation of BH209 Powder Lots, and how he goes about getting an Average, Then Weighing to take the Variable out of the Volume Measure is DARN Good Stuff, and has made Good Sense to me from my Very Beginning in Muzzleloading.

I understand what i am about to say in this paragraph is Different, Yet leads to the Same thing. I came in to Muzzleloading from a Lifelong background of Handloading 1,000 Yard and Beyond Precision Centerfire, I have handloaded For CF Nearly all of my Life (Started when i was 14-15 Yrs Old) So when i came in to Muzzleloading I brought All of Those years of knowledge along, Namely Weighing my Powder Charges, as it just made the best sense to me. I asked myself “Would i trust a Volume Measure with my CF’s? A device that was Designed to get you “Close Enough for field use” My immediate answer was ABSOLUTELY NOT! My next Question was “What makes my Muzzleloaders Different?” Are they Magically suppose to Compensate for Charge discrepancy’s that a Volume Measure can Throw?” Again my answer was Obviously NOT! My Goal in this Stuff is to Pull the Most Accuracy i can possibly get out of each and every one of my Rifles, Therefore i take out EVERY Possible Variable i can, I want EVERY Shot as Close as i can possibly make it to the Shot before it.

I get a kick out of Guy’s that Act like Precisely Weighing Powder Charges is a BIG DEAL, Time Consuming Etc. Fact is, for me anyway, I find it FAR easier in the End, Especially if you know the Load for a Particular Rifle you plan to Shoot, I don’t have to Fiddle/Faddle Around with a Volume measure each time i Load and except “Close Enough” or Hope that i was Consistent to get “Close Enough”, My Charges are Already PRECISELY done to the 1/10th of a Grain, And Ready to Load.

And last, if you don’t think that Several Grains Difference you CAN Get from a Volume Measure (Last part of Jeff’s Video) will Negatively effect anything? Test your Drops at Longer Ranges of Say 300-500 Yards and Report Back Obviously the Key to the Best possible “Consistency” with Volume Measure Powder Drops is Being Consistent in how you do it, as Bestill Shows in His Video with his Catch Pail, and his Technique of Pouring over, Then Cutting the Top off. But look what happened when he lightly tapped the measure, He came up with a BIG DIFFERENCE of over 4 Grains! A good Weight Scale takes that Possible BIG DIFFERENCE out of the Equation.

I understand what your saying and appreciate what you do. what Jeff said holds true for the majority of us that don't shoot past 200 and many who will shoot to 300 even. I took away these things from Jeffs vids, please correct me if I got it wrong.
1) be consistent.
2)when you find your best load, check it by volume and weight but be consistent
3)hand measuring is not as consistent as a settable mechanical 'drop' measure and can be just as accurate at shorter distances but you still need to be consistent
4)if you weigh your loads double check them and be consistent
5)do whichever system is working for you and be consistent in how you do it.
6) repeatable performance only works if you are consistent in all your steps.
7)be safe and God bless you.
I am going to continue using my mechanical powder measure because it works for me shooting less than 150 yards. I occasionally check weights to verify consistency.

 

[GM54-120]

Use what is working for you and if possible is the easiest to keep consistent. If you take 100gr by volume and convert it to weight, you will always have 100gr by volume unless your scale is off. It wont matter if you tap or dont as long as you always do it the same way.

The scale part of my Chargemaster 1500 Combo can be used by itself. So its quite easy to "drop" a load (using a Uniflow or similar) right into a pan for the scale. If its off too much it dont go into a tube. Seems simple enough. You will always be within a grain by weight or volume. Your amount of fuel will always be the same until changing lots.

 

[Idaholewis]

Use what is working for you and if possible is the easiest to keep consistent.

Right here ^

If i had a Volume measure for EVERY Member on here i would Gladly Send them out to you free of Charge, But DOG ON IT, I’m fresh out of them for the rest of my Life

 

[GM54-120]

Im researching that Lyman measure when i get time. The RCBS 1500 takes under a minute to drop/trickle a load. Not a huge deal really but if i can get within a grain in couple seconds that would be nice. Just use the scale part to confirm the load is within specs and dump them into tubes. Culls just go back in the hopper.

 

[45-70]

here is target and velocities from this morning

 

[sdporter]

That seems like a large spread on the FPS. Is that normal with BH209? I don’t own a chrono yet, so I have no idea. I’d take that target at 200 yards all dang day though!! Nice shootin’

 

[45-70]

i thought the same thing about the spread

 

[sabotloader]

Some of the spread can be explained or credited to the amount of fouling that might be in the barrel. If the resistance of the progress of the sabot/bullet up the barrel is increased causing the the load to move up the bore a bit slower - it also increases the pressure in the bore which will provide more FPS at the muzzle - not much but some!

I guess I should add the weight differences and diameters of like bullets can also created an effect on muzzle velocities.

Even how compressed the powder might be after loading can somewhat effect velocity at the muzzle

Just a couple thoughts...

There are people out there using a gauge to measure the compression - it can make a difference in long range shooting.

 

[ENCORE50A]

i thought the same thing about the spread

Bob, you still shooting the XLD bullet? If so, have you tried a different bullet and checked the velocity ES?

 

[45-70]

Bob, you still shooting the XLD bullet? If so, have you tried a different bullet and checked the velocity ES?

think it is in my cleaning and bullet fit , best group in about a week. Yes xld 325