Bestill Creations part 3 blackhorn
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Jeff mentioned that he looks for a loading force of 20# (bullet to bore). I'm not sure if he mentioned in the video or not, but during our conversations he suggested to me 20# in a CLEAN BARREL with BH.
With bullet to bore, once the barrel is fouled, even with 2 patches swabbing followed by 2 dry patches, the loading force is higher than 20#. Now I haven't actually used the gauge and measured it, which I should, but having measured enough stuff over 30yrs, the loading forces are somewhat higher.
When I test the initial loading force using the gauge in a clean barrel, at 20# I don't need anything over the end of the rod and they just push down. Once that barrel is fouled, even with swabbing and dry patching, the forces have increased enough, that I use my "T" handle over the end of the rod to load.
Is it possible that your bullets are loading with to little force in a fouled barrel???
This bh209 is a very interesting as well as a very frustrateing subject . Jeffs right , Michiganmuzzys right , Lewis is too , cant forget Busta either !!! Seems MY care-o-meter swings like a hula dancer at this point !!! EXCEPT FOR 1 THING -- THE NEWBIE OR LURKER.......
Ive got a Real Problem with our loads with them , and its not Their Fault !!!
This is But One Issue that really needed to stay on the Range with the Target Boys !!!
This Particular issue is Exactley unposted weight or volume listed charges concerning their/our safety . To state these charges without also saying weight or volume is WRONG and a PITA !!! I read Many on here that Neglect just That . Maybe this stands out to me because ive got a Rem UML barreled Knight that can handle 160gr VOLUME of bh209 . These differences are handled quite slopily most of the time when posting !!!!! Before its said there are safety factors built into bh209 or barrels lets Really stop and look at this !!! Smoker or not im not wrong by sayin just that Before this thread gets buried and difficult to find with this New Xferno Version we got !!! Personally the old one was MUCH HANDIER but this is now IT !!!
If this has some raiseing their eyebrows GOOD !!! The cats outa the bag now and "THE DIFFERENCE" MATTERS !!!
PLEASE Consider this when listing ALL charges of this energetic bh209 powder . I didnt put this up here to ARGUE about this SAFETY FACTOR . Especially for a newbies sake !!! We ARE our brothers Keeper in this !!! Lets All do a Good Job with that.....
Ive got a Real Problem with our loads with them , and its not Their Fault !!!
This is But One Issue that really needed to stay on the Range with the Target Boys !!!
This Particular issue is Exactley unposted weight or volume listed charges concerning their/our safety . To state these charges without also saying weight or volume is WRONG and a PITA !!! I read Many on here that Neglect just That . Maybe this stands out to me because ive got a Rem UML barreled Knight that can handle 160gr VOLUME of bh209 . These differences are handled quite slopily most of the time when posting !!!!! Before its said there are safety factors built into bh209 or barrels lets Really stop and look at this !!! Smoker or not im not wrong by sayin just that Before this thread gets buried and difficult to find with this New Xferno Version we got !!! Personally the old one was MUCH HANDIER but this is now IT !!!
If this has some raiseing their eyebrows GOOD !!! The cats outa the bag now and "THE DIFFERENCE" MATTERS !!!
PLEASE Consider this when listing ALL charges of this energetic bh209 powder . I didnt put this up here to ARGUE about this SAFETY FACTOR . Especially for a newbies sake !!! We ARE our brothers Keeper in this !!! Lets All do a Good Job with that.....
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One of the oldest stickies at the top of this section. Hard to miss it. It never moves as a sticky. Even though the conversion is wrong, its wrong on the safe side. I will add Westerns load link to the topic but for now it will remain closed to normal posting.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/blackhorn-209-facts-figures-and-dos-and-dont.9234/
My loads are usually listed as grV or grW if i dont type it out.
grV being volume and grW being weight.....obviously.
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/blackhorn-209-facts-figures-and-dos-and-dont.9234/
My loads are usually listed as grV or grW if i dont type it out.
grV being volume and grW being weight.....obviously.
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Bob, You're talking about a safety issue here in , W vs. V, yet you are posting about your RUM barreled Franken gun being able to shoot 160 gr. by vol. loads when in fact Remington doesn't recommend BH in their RUM at all. If you want to build rifles and use unrecommended loads that should be kept to the builder and not posted in the open forum.
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I noticed that, but refrained from commenting.
A RUM barrel on a Knight action is not safe IMO with the charge indicated. Both the UF and RUM have bolt lugs on Remington 700 actions. Neither UF or Remington would agree with having less.
Kinda my point in a twisted sort of way . Im for sure glad it has a knight plug too . There is some data for it available , not from Remington tho . Every custom is a frankenstein truly ., some just got alot nicer specs . A sml 700ml build is another example of "franken gun" and they work too . I kinda doubt i'll start a trend .
Honestly ive seen stuff here that only said to be 95gr -nothing else given . Thats over for a 84grW -120grV charge even tho i guess(?) Its meant to be a volume load . This is what ive meant all along and it fits as a problem . Its not the first time either .
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Concerning Blackhorn 209 powder.
Some pots calling the kettle black here. This was all hashed out back in 2015ish and several times since. Prior to that, everyone knew the posted grain charges were by VOLUME, the INDUSTRY STANDARD.
The long range target shooters were given their own forum 5 doors down. I guess that obviously wasn't good enough. I've never been there (on purpose), or posted there, so I couldn't tell you what the problem is about posting that information amongst themselves there with a disclaimer/identifier.
Now that the main pool is polluted (and has been since), we ALL have a responsibility to post a VOLUME or WEIGHT identifier/qualifier with EACH and EVERY load posted. This also goes for ANY load over 120 grains by VOLUME for any production rifle is UNSAFE.
The only exception to the above would be the CVA Paramount rifles, as they have published safe loads by both the rifle manufacturer and the powder manufacturer. I will not list them here, as those loads can be found in the OWNERS MANUAL for those rifles.
I've also said this several times about new members, and guests that are just reading here for information. Maybe this will help some to understand?
As of 2:40 PM EDT, there are 2 Administrators, 33 members, and 144 guests. There is usually several robots here as well, but they may be considered as guests under this new format?
Just think about those 144 guests that may not be able to recognize whether someone is talking about WEIGHT or VOLUME.
Some pots calling the kettle black here. This was all hashed out back in 2015ish and several times since. Prior to that, everyone knew the posted grain charges were by VOLUME, the INDUSTRY STANDARD.
The long range target shooters were given their own forum 5 doors down. I guess that obviously wasn't good enough. I've never been there (on purpose), or posted there, so I couldn't tell you what the problem is about posting that information amongst themselves there with a disclaimer/identifier.
Now that the main pool is polluted (and has been since), we ALL have a responsibility to post a VOLUME or WEIGHT identifier/qualifier with EACH and EVERY load posted. This also goes for ANY load over 120 grains by VOLUME for any production rifle is UNSAFE.
The only exception to the above would be the CVA Paramount rifles, as they have published safe loads by both the rifle manufacturer and the powder manufacturer. I will not list them here, as those loads can be found in the OWNERS MANUAL for those rifles.
I've also said this several times about new members, and guests that are just reading here for information. Maybe this will help some to understand?
As of 2:40 PM EDT, there are 2 Administrators, 33 members, and 144 guests. There is usually several robots here as well, but they may be considered as guests under this new format?
Just think about those 144 guests that may not be able to recognize whether someone is talking about WEIGHT or VOLUME.
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Thank you Busta , i wasnt Nearly as eloquent as you on this .
If you fellows are talking about me , I thought I explained that they were thrown with measure set at 120 and then checked by scale as what I have wrote down as per Bestill instructions. This is what I was trying to show. I don't have a Franken tooth muzzle loader as stated , so please I would like to know who the Bob is you are talking about.
Me as fishhawk2700 and i have met . Its also a very nice gun if seen and nobody here has seen it either , includeing him . In fact i bought Another (different) RUML barrel from him That day all slicked up and crowned by Bestill with a ASG modual plug for it , for a 700ml switch barreled rig which will have 4 barrels . 1 will be sml . A Really Nice Frankengun too .....just sayin.......
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