BH 209 - Part 1, Preparation for the range.

[RoJo]

As I mentioned in a recent thread today, I had the opportunity to finally go to the range yesterday. Although I was somewhat satisfied with the end results, I need to work through some issues/questions regarding the BH 209. I'd like to share the details of my experiences yesterday and hope that I can get some feedback.

Part 1 - preparation for the range

I used a CVA brand "see-through" powder measurer and put charges of 70-100 gr. in the graduated BH 209 tubes. I also did the same using a CVA brand "brass" powder measurer. I made more of a mess than I wanted. As I slid the nipple of the measurers to level the powder both of them kinda got stuck. I had to put pressure on the nipple in order to level the charge. Doing so made a crunching type feeling, as though I was cracking the 209 gr. into pieces. I also noticed that a noticeable number of powder gr. kept sticking to the inside of the see-through tube. At first I thought I may have contaminated the 209 with moisture but didn't seem possible. I also noticed that when I set the scale on the brass measurer the charge always register 10 gr. less than the scale setting.

Q #1. Can I assume that what I was experiencing when trying to level the powder was the difference in the rigid composition of the 209 compared to a much lighter composition of Triple 7, Pyrodex, or whatever else I saw guys leveling in videos? They just made a clean sweep and it was leveled. Solution?

Q #2. The rep at CVA wasn't aware of the -10 gr of 209 when using the brass measurer. Is it possible that this problem also relates to the difference in composition between 209 and other powders, or maybe the brass measurer was made before 209 was on the market. Can assume that a fix to the problem is to set the scale at 110 to get a charge of 110 gr.? Is this issue the same with T/C and other brass measurers?

Q #3. Western Powders told me yesterday that he uses a small funnel and pours the 209 directly into the scald 209 range tubes. I asked about inconsistent measurers affecting accuracy and was told that even to "eyeball" the level of powder would not affect accuracy. At what point does a difference in levels affect the accuracy/performance of shooting? I read a thread somewhere where a member claimed that the graduated marks on the 209 tubes were intended to help you distinguish just the difference between one load and another (ie. is this 80 gr. or 90 gr. in the tube?) Any thoughts on this? Oh, BTW, I've read the lengthy threads everywhere as to whether you should measure 209 by weight or volume. Just for my own sanity I'm thinking about going to Cabelas tomorrow to buy an electronic scale.

Q #4. Western Powders also confirmed that the issue with powder sticking to the plastic tube was static. He suggested adding one teaspoon of graphite to a 10 oz. bottle of 209 and add 5 teaspoons of graphite to a 5 lb bottle and mix well. Just wondering if this is common? And, if I catch powder overflow on a plate or something, will I contaminate the powder in the bottle if I pour the overflow back in the bottle?

 

[MrTom]

Static is causing the powder to stick in /on your implements. Take a new dryer sheet and rub the outside of things where loose powder grains stick and use a forceps to push the dryer sheet into the tubes and barrels of the measures. You'll be much happier doing so.

 

[RoJo]

Static is causing the powder to stick in /on your implements. Take a new dryer sheet and rub the outside of things where loose powder grains stick and use a forceps to push the dryer sheet into the tubes and barrels of the measures. You'll be much happier doing so.

Appreciate that. I was trying to be meticulous and efficient but it wasn’t working. Thanks.

 

[ShawnT]

I had to put pressure on the nipple in order to level the charge.

I think you are talking about the Funnel on the end of the measure?

I don't use a funnel on the measure when measuring BH, I do with Pyrodex P, Swiss 3f or 7773f. The Funnels work good with the other subs or black but not so much with an extruded type powder like BH. I use a small funnel in the tube to transfer the powder from measure to tube. The crunching was most likely you "Cutting/crushing" kernels of powder. Measures can vary some but it boils down to using one consistently each time. And like mentioned rub them and the storage tubes with a dryer sheet to prevent the static you were getting. I personally would not bother with the Graphite in the powder its just not really necessary, the dryer sheet trick with take care of it. I just pour the powder slowly into the Measure till it is about as level to the mouth of the measure as possible. Some like to tap the measure to "Settle" the powder then top off. Again the main thing is pick one way and do it consistently each time.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

I like my brass measure for volume. I use a funnel cap on my BH209 container and pour from that into my brass measure. I mound and tap to settle the powder, no scraping any off, no waste. Once you do it a few times, it's very easy to be consistent.

 

[RoJo]

I think you are talking about the Funnel on the end of the measure?

I don't use a funnel on the measure when measuring BH, I do with Pyrodex P, Swiss 3f or 7773f. The Funnels work good with the other subs or black but not so much with an extruded type powder like BH. I use a small funnel in the tube to transfer the powder from measure to tube. The crunching was most likely you "Cutting/crushing" kernels of powder. Measures can vary some but it boils down to using one consistently each time. And like mentioned rub them and the storage tubes with a dryer sheet to prevent the static you were getting. I personally would not bother with the Graphite in the powder its just not really necessary, the dryer sheet trick with take care of it. I just pour the powder slowly into the Measure till it is about as level to the mouth of the measure as possible. Some like to tap the measure to "Settle" the powder then top off. Again the main thing is pick one way and do it consistently each time.

That makes sense. Thanks. I have a lot to learn about the BK 209. When you say you use a small funnel to transfer the powder from the measure to the tube, do you mean the BH 209 range tube the the scale printed on it? I’ve bought into the idea of being absolutely consistent with routine.

Is this a logical assumption: If I decide, for example, that I want my 209 charge to be 100 gr., I pour into my measurer tube until it is as level as possible without needing to swing the funnel tip around to level off. I have to believe that if I “weigh” my charges I will see a variety of weights with even a slight discrepancy. Do you think one could get enough consistency with eyeballing the level of the charge that it would not affect the accuracy? If I invested in an electronic scale I guess I’d know how consistent my eyeballing is. Do we know how much a variation in weight of gr. It would take to affect accuracy? Thanks again.

 

[RoJo]

I like my brass measure for volume. I use a funnel cap on my BH209 container and pour from that into my brass measure. I mound and tap to settle the powder, no scraping any off, no waste. Once you do it a few times, it's very easy to be consistent.

I appreciate the photos. I do have the funnel cap for my 209 container. Regarding the brass measurer, I have one by CVA. I was confused yesterday when using it because I set the scale at 100 gr. and every single one showed 90 gr. in my 209 range tube. The CVA rep couldn’t explain why.

I just wrote a reply to another member, basically asking how consistent I could be by eyeballing the level of my charge without scraping any off like you explained here. I believe I could get to prefer this method. I supposed that weighing frequent samples would tell me how efficient my eyeballing is. Do you find that the 209 settles much when you tap the measurer? The Western Powders rep didn't think there was much room for it to settle because the 209 gr. are so consistently uniform in size.

I’m very interested in discovering how different the volume of my charges would be before I saw a change in accuracy. Would it depend on my range or other factor? Thanks again.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Once you get your eyecrometer set on how much 'mound' to have before you tap the measure to settle the powder, you will be surprised on how accurate you can be. When you weigh your powder after first measuring by volume, you variance will be in tenths of a grain, which at 200yds or less, will have a very small effect on accuracy.

BH209 does settle, how much for me, I'm not sure, I would have to check.

I've read many times on how inaccurate those BH209 tubes are, I wouldn't trust them, I prefer using tubes with screw caps, then labeling them or the package they're in.

 

[RoJo]

I feel much better when I get information like this. At this point, I’m leaning toward practicing your technique with leveling the charge in the brass measure without leveling. For my own peace of mind I’d want to initially weigh the powder to judge how consistent my eyeballing is.

When I go to the range to zero a scope I get very demanding on getting groups as precise as possible. I want to prove what my rifle and scope can do. When I get to the woods, duplicating the range results is up to me. In the process of getting my precision on the range, that might be the time I would depend on weighed charges.

One more question - when you get time to reply:
when you work with BH 209 and you do have powder caught in a container that you want to put back in the 209 bottle, do you contaminate the 209 by letting it come into contact with your hands or exposure to air too long?

 

[ShawnT]

When you say you use a small funnel to transfer the powder from the measure to the tube, do you mean the BH 209 range tube the the scale printed on it?

Yes. I use the Lanes vials you can find in the Classifieds, and just a small reloaders or household funnel to transfer the powder from measure to tube. Lanes vials will more or less fit onto my TDC brass measures so I don't always use the funnel. I like the screw on cap better than the push in type. Just a personal preference. As mentioned by Buckdoehunter, I would not trust the measuring lines on the BH tubes. Seen too many posts about them being off.

[/QUOTE] Is this a logical assumption: If I decide, for example, that I want my 209 charge to be 100 gr., I pour into my measurer tube until it is as level as possible without needing to swing the funnel tip around to level off. I have to believe that if I “weigh” my charges I will see a variety of weights with even a slight discrepancy. Do you think one could get enough consistency with eyeballing the level of the charge that it would not affect the accuracy? If I invested in an electronic scale I guess I’d know how consistent my eyeballing is. Do we know how much a variation in weight of gr. It would take to affect accuracy? Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

The small variations (1/10th grain or even up to 1 grain) you would see don't make that much difference in Accuracy at hunting ranges. I have, and do, both weight and volume measuring and find that as long as I am consistent both ways work fine for me. I don't find the small variations as critical as they are with smokeless powder CF cartridge loading. BY the way keep in mind that Volume Weights and Scale weights are not the same, you need to use the conversions if you decide to "Weigh" your powder on a scale. 100grains in your Volume Measure is not the same as 100 grains on a scale.

 

[RoJo]

Yes. I use the Lanes vials you can find in the Classifieds, and just a small reloaders or household funnel to transfer the powder from measure to tube. Lanes vials will more or less fit onto my TDC brass measures so I don't always use the funnel. I like the screw on cap better than the push in type. Just a personal preference. As mentioned by Buckdoehunter, I would not trust the measuring lines on the BH tubes. Seen too many posts about them being off.

Is this a logical assumption: If I decide, for example, that I want my 209 charge to be 100 gr., I pour into my measurer tube until it is as level as possible without needing to swing the funnel tip around to level off. I have to believe that if I “weigh” my charges I will see a variety of weights with even a slight discrepancy. Do you think one could get enough consistency with eyeballing the level of the charge that it would not affect the accuracy? If I invested in an electronic scale I guess I’d know how consistent my eyeballing is. Do we know how much a variation in weight of gr. It would take to affect accuracy? Thanks again.[/QUOTE]

The small variations (1/10th grain or even up to 1 grain) you would see don't make that much difference in Accuracy at hunting ranges. I have, and do, both weight and volume measuring and find that as long as I am consistent both ways work fine for me. I don't find the small variations as critical as they are with smokeless powder CF cartridge loading. BY the way keep in mind that Volume Weights and Scale weights are not the same, you need to use the conversions if you decide to "Weigh" your powder on a scale. 100grains in your Volume Measure is not the same as 100 grains on a scale.[/QUOTE]
Got it. I spent a lot of crazy time reading the back and forth opinions regarding volume vs. weight. I initially concluded that having a consistent technique measuring volume would be ok for hunting. Now, I want to see for myself just how consistent my technique and equipment is. Once I see, maybe I'll do the measure by volume. However, I've always been a stickler with precision on the range when I prepared for hunting. Once I get the precision on the range, what happens in the woods is on me. I guess what I'm experiencing is taking a little expertise from each of you in these forms and developing my own preferences. I enjoy reading the threads and feedback from you guys.

 

[RoJo]

I like my brass measure for volume. I use a funnel cap on my BH209 container and pour from that into my brass measure. I mound and tap to settle the powder, no scraping any off, no waste. Once you do it a few times, it's very easy to be consistent.

I had round two with BH 209 this morning to get ready to go back to the range and zero my scope. I did a lot of things different than the first time. I’m going to write a post later to explain what I did. Based on what you showed me here, can I assume that you were more so looking for a “close” consistent measure rather than trying to hit 100 gr. volume (70 weight) on the button?

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

My brass volume measure throws light charges when I weigh them if I don’t mound and tap, but when I do, it will measure charges very close to BH’s conversion ratio.

 

[Forkston]

O

 

[Forkston]

Go to namlhunt.com you will get all the information you want or will ever need about BH 209 and anything else to do with inline muzzleloaders

 

[GM54-120]

Go to namlhunt.com you will get all the information you want or will ever need about BH 209 and anything else to do with inline muzzleloaders

Or stick around here and get info from many sources. TB has some interesting articles but we have people here with loads of real world experience also. We have several Friendship shooters here that use BH209 and some have set amazing scores as well. Kinda hard to beat that when it comes to knowing BH209. You probably wont find TB touching some topics at all, such as fine tuning head space to reduce blowby or custom builds. It was here i first seen it posted that different lots of BH209 were weighing differently. Not sure i ever saw TB mention that little tidbit of info. We got that from one of the top Friendship shooters if i recall correctly.

Pretty sure at least 3 of these guys post here and know BH209 very well. Im certain they know inlines just by looking at their scores and rifles.

 

[RoJo]

Go to namlhunt.com you will get all the information you want or will ever need about BH 209 and anything else to do with inline muzzleloaders

Thanks. I’ll check it out this weekend.

 

[Forkston]

Or do both

 

[RoJo]

Or stick around here and get info from many sources. TB has some interesting articles but we have people here with loads of real world experience also. We have several Friendship shooters here that use BH209 and some have set amazing scores as well. Kinda hard to beat that when it comes to knowing BH209. You probably wont find TB touching some topics at all, such as fine tuning head space to reduce blowby or custom builds. It was here i first seen it posted that different lots of BH209 were weighing differently. Not sure i ever saw TB mention that little tidbit of info. We got that from one of the top Friendship shooters if i recall correctly.

Pretty sure at least 3 of these guys post here and know BH209 very well. Im certain they know inlines just by looking at their scores and rifles.

Thanks. I’ve picked the brains of lots of ML shooters on this site in the past several weeks

Go to namlhunt.com you will get all the information you want or will ever need about BH 209 and anything else to do with inline muzzleloaders

og, just checked the site and realized s browsed through it before. Not quite the same as this site. On MM you’re not limited to posted articles and/or advertising. You can find the information in personal posts by members or ask your question in a real-time post. I find more

My brass volume measure throws light charges when I weigh them if I don’t mound and tap, but when I do, it will measure charges very close to BH’s conversion ratio.

Can I assume that

My brass volume measure throws light charges when I weigh them if I don’t mound and tap, but when I do, it will measure charges very close to BH’s conversion ratio.

My brass volume measure throws light charges when I weigh them if I don’t mound and tap, but when I do, it will measure charges very close to BH’s conversion ratio.

I suppose the difference in mounding/leveling has something to do with the density of the BH. I noticed it’s ability to settle yesterday when I was preparing my range tubes.I tried your technique yesterday. I’ll need some practice. I weighed my volume charges just to see. In the beginning, I poured too much, too quickly. When I was able to mound the weight was often 1-3 gr off 100. Then I lightly leveled with a single-edge razor blade and consistently got within .2-.4 when I weighed them. I used the CVA brass measure because of the cuts in the scale that kinda locks the slide in place. however, an irregularity (burr) interfered with a smooth slide of the blade. Finally, for the sake of determine my best accuracy at the range I weighed them with a Hornady lock-n-load 1500 scale. I was fascinated by the fact that I could trickle a few grains from my latex glove and change the weight .1 grain at a time. I suppose practice will get me to where I can depend on volume in the brass measure.

 

[GM54-120]

Nice thing about here is you can get reviews on products that are not just supplied by a sponsor. You are more likely to get a complete review of the product including the bad things. TB typically does not review a product unless its from a sponsor. He also has a history of keeping the negative opinions "hush hush" until that sponsorship ends or is ending. Some fine examples are Savage, Knight and Alliant BlackMZ....All were wonderful until one day...they suddenly had flaws that were hardly mentioned before.

Here with multiple reviews from people that had to pay for their products you have a far better chance of getting at the entire truth. You wont see me tell you that the Harvester Crushrib is the "be all end all sabot" for every rifle although its a great sabot for some bores. The less expensive Harvester EZ Load smooth short sabot is often a better choice. Sometimes its one of the MMP sabots ect ect ect.

You simply wont get those kind of answers when sponsors and their products are paying the bills of the reviewer. Enjoy his articles just see them for what they are. He has many worth reading.