BH209 and Fouling/Corrosion

[BuckDoeHunter]

I have etched a breech plug and bought a rifle with an etched breech plug from leaving BH209 fouling on too long. I would shoot the rifle at the range then swab the barrel but not clean the breech plug. It would be 1-2 weeks between range sessions before the breech plug was thoroughly cleaned. I learned the hard way that doesn't always work.

Now, I will shoot a rifle when hunting and reload it, maybe go 2-3 days that way, then the rifle is shot and cleaned, unless foul weather is involved, then the rifle is cleaned the same day. I coat my breech plugs with grease from the tip all the way up the threads, I think that helps fight off corrosion, I only did the threads previously. When I'm done shooting at the range, the rifle is cleaned the same day.

Triumph plug that I etched

CVA Accura plug that someone else did

 

[Busta]

First and foremost, let me preface this with, "you will be hard pressed to find a bigger proponent of Blackhorn 209, than me"! But let us not go walking through the fall/winter woods with blinders on. Some obviously have a lucky horseshoe, rabbits foot (remember those?), or are holding their mouth just right. Not all will be so lucky!

That Triumph plug is more than what I call etched, that is pitted. It does show you that those interrupted thread breech plugs with gas rings do not even come close to sealing.

The Accura plug is also pitted, to a lesser degree. It's design seals much better.

What I consider etched, is not red rust, it just makes the stainless surface a bit chalky looking. No brownish red pits, just a white frosted look.

Thanks for your confession. I'm sure there are lots more out there, but several will never admit it. Some will choose to ignore it. I will have to see if I can find a couple of those test plugs that were also pitted after just 3 days.

We discovered this way back, 10-11 years ago while testing rifles of all makes and platforms.

Believe it or not, #11 caps will ignite Blackhorn 209 in certain platforms. Albeit, not without slight delayed or hangfires.

We also discovered that the hotter 209 primers provide a much more complete burn of the powder. The marginal ignition types and lesser 209 primers were WAY more apt to give an incomplete burn in the barrel, and we're much more conducive to accelerated corrosion. That's why I always (and Western too) recommend using the hottest 209 or LRMP primers that work for your rifles.

If you recall, the first lot of Blackhorn was released to the public in early April, 2008. I bought the first case shipped to Michigan, and it was Lot #4, bottled on 4-3-2008.







The containers had "Noncorrosive - easy cleanup" on the front and did through at least lot #8. However they added an asterisk (*) to it after the first label change to "Noncorrosive* - easy cleanup". They also added a disclaimer that "* Blackhorn 209 IS NOT a bore protectant".






Somewhere between Lot #8 and Lot #12 they changed the wording to "Extremely low residue - easy cleanup" and dropped the "noncorrosive(*) wording from the label completely. They also added a blue "WARNING" disclaimer on the back label.






Here are all three of these earlier labels side by side. Three sides of the label, as the other side panel was unchanged over this period. You might have to zoom in to read them?






I know some don't agree with me, and that is OK, as long as you can afford to let your rifle possibly get corroded. Some spend a couple thousand oo more dollars on a rifle, some work hard to afford and entry level rifle. I don't want to see anyone let their rifle get pitted, trying to hunt on a fouled bore, or going too long without cleaning. That time period will be different for every rifle, geographical location, humidity level, weather conditions. However, I KNOW it can possibly go 3 weeks with one rifle and breech plug during hunting season, and I ALSO KNOW things can go south as fast as 3 days with other rifles and breech plugs.

It's your rifle. You paid yer money, and you takes yer chances!

I still think Blackhorn 209 is the best black powder substitute ever made, and I've tried/tested them all.

 

[Lee 9]

There are other ways to deal with it depending on what your rifle likes.
Mine is shooting right into the group after 6 209, fire 3, clean fire 3 more and wipe with dry patch.
I think each person has to find what works with their rifle.

Blackhorn 209 was handed to me. The mfg. claimed it was not a smokeless (nitrocellulose) powder. So I had at it in the kitchen with different solvents. Turned out TO BE a nitrocellulose powder with 17 parts of an unidentified chemical used to tone it down in the gun. The unknown chemical is highly soluble in water. I just saw no need to spend another day or two in the kitchen to identify it. And given the price per pound I figured it simply was out of the picture. After reading a post or two in this thread I might just take another look at the 17 parts of the unidentified water-soluble chemical and see if that would cause corrosion.
potassium nitrate. Was found to be most of the 17 parts when it burns it leaves potassium chlorate which will cause pitting.

Most of this info is a quote from Lew Gram on an other forum

 

[Busta]

It is a nitrocellulose based product, as are some pong pong balls and movie film. However, that does not make it a smokeless powder. Just like ping pong balls and film are not smokeless powder.

This was all hashed out years ago, yet some still try to tell you it's smokeless, when it's not. It was also hashed out within a year or so here again, and I posted the findings. There's a lot more to it.

I'll take the words of chemists from General Dynamics and Western Powders over some guy at home in his kitchen. They know every component in the mix. Everyone else is just guessing.

That cracks me up, every time someone posts the mad scientist in the kitchen findings. LOL!

 

[ENCORE50A]

BH or any other propellant can be debated, questioned, or suggestions given. Its completely up to the owner what he/she feels is best for their rifle/s. Owners should read the responses, then determine what is best for themselves. If there's any doubt, then the right thing for that owner to do, is to protect his/her firearm to the best of their abilities. Rather that's after a single shot, or a couple days, a week, or what ever. Mistakes come in different ways and to different folks. Do what YOU feel is best for your specific rifle, then there's only YOU to blame.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

Yes, you are right, pitted does fit better.

I didn't realize Western changed their BH209 label that many times, I first used it with the original label...false advertising?.....I wonder if they will reimburse me for my troubles

 

[MSalyards]

Well I'm not shooting ping pong balls ouy of my guns just in case!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Well I'm not shooting ping pong balls ouy of my guns just in case!

They werk best in slow twist guns

 

[Busta]

Yes, you are right, pitted does fit better.

I didn't realize Western changed their BH209 label that many times, I first used it with the original label...false advertising?.....I wonder if they will reimburse me for my troubles

They've changed it several times over the years. 2 more times just in the last 2 years.

They also added that dang warning that everything in California causes cancer to the jugs this year as well.


2019



2018



2017

 

[Busta]

Well I'm not shooting ping pong balls ouy of my guns just in case!

Ever put flame under a ping pong ball?

Not sure how old you are, but if your my age or older. Do your ever remember the teacher leaving the 16mm film sit stopped in front of the projector light a little too long? Or be at the theater and watch the film go up in flames on the big screen?

You want to keep both away from flames, and super bright, hot projector bulbs.

 

[MrTom]

I fouled the two guns that I hunted with this fall on Friday the 8th with four primers each. Both guns were shot during the nine day season I hunted. Both simply reloaded. One gun is stainless, one blued. I hunted in sunshine, rain, snow and heavy fog in temps from single digits to the low 40's. I just finished cleaning the two guns and neither had a bit of corrosion or rust. 209 powder in both guns.

And I found the source of the hang fire I had. Apparently I did not get the drill bit into the flame channel on that .45 Kodiak as far as I thought I had to rout the carbon out. I've marked the drill bit now with a small wrap of masking tape at the depth I need. That was a shocker for me in a gun that was clean and only primer fouled as far as I knew.

Anyway, this is my experience in this topic and hopefully helps someone. In all of my experiences in shooting Blackhorn 209 I have never seen rust or nay sort of corrosion. T7, yes.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

The best looking sticker on my jug is the clearance label

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I fouled the two guns that I hunted with this fall on Friday the 8th with four primers each. Both guns were shot during the nine day season I hunted. Both simply reloaded. One gun is stainless, one blued. I hunted in sunshine, rain, snow and heavy fog in temps from single digits to the low 40's. I just finished cleaning the two guns and neither had a bit of corrosion or rust. 209 powder in both guns.

And I found the source of the hang fire I had. Apparently I did not get the drill bit into the flame channel on that .45 Kodiak as far as I thought I had to rout the carbon out. I've marked the drill bit now with a small wrap of masking tape at the depth I need. That was a shocker for me in a gun that was clean and only primer fouled as far as I knew.

Anyway, this is my experience in this topic and hopefully helps someone. In all of my experiences in shooting Blackhorn 209 I have never seen rust or nay sort of corrosion. T7, yes.

Have you ever cleaned that breech plug with a steamer? I just got clued into them a month, or so, ago. Man do they deep clean the small parts well! Even parts you thought were really clean.

 

[MSalyards]

^^^^^ ME TOO! And thank you Lewis! I just got mine in the mail the other day and I'm having all kinds of fun.

 

[Idaholewis]

^^^^^ ME TOO! And thank you Lewis! I just got mine in the mail the other day and I'm having all kinds of fun.

They work AWESOME on Blackpowder/Muzzleloaders!! Plus you can clean all kinds of other Stuff with them. They are a WIN WIN Tool, and Reasonably cheap to own

 

[MrTom]

Have you ever cleaned that breech plug with a steamer? I just got clued into them a month, or so, ago. Man do they deep clean the small parts well! Even parts you thought were really clean.

I have my doubts that a steamer will clean the hard carbon found in the flame channel behind the primer pocket. I could be wrong but this is something I knew about and just wasn't aggressive enough on the last cleaning. On the last cleaning I did not pull the vent liner either....something I do with every cleaning but just got lazy the last time. The steamer works great on Lewis's side hammers and with his real black and I think his idea that led him in the streamer direction is a dandy one so I don't want to say one wouldn't work, I just don't need the expense right now. I'll keep an eye on the shot count to see when and if this hang-fire stuff recurs and make note to do the drill cleaning before that number arrives if I am on the range and shooting a bunch with that gun.

 

[knightnut2000]

The best looking sticker on my jug is the clearance label

HOLLY CRAP where did you find that at sir

 

[Busta]

If you look up in the top left of the clearance label between the * and the A in WAS, you'll see a date of 02/07/19. Which means it was the end of season clearance after last year's hunting season.

If any is left over, they clearance it out every year

 

[MSalyards]

One of the best things I have purchased this year! Under $24.00 delivered to my door off ebay.

 

[mwwoodman]

Just imagine, the simplest way to make a breech plug that resists corrosion damage is material choice. Most all manufacturers just go for the cheapest material, but market it "Stainless". For less than an additional dollar in material costs, a breech plug can be made of 17-4 stainless and it will not pit, corrode or rust.