BIG Minie’s, BIG Powder Charges

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Whats beautiful about that Really Big Lead the numbers cant show . Its the freight train MOMENTUM !!!!!! They Dont STOP !!!! High velocity lighter bullets CANT give you that . IF THEY ARE BIG ENOUGH they will also NOT DEFLECT EASILY !!!!! Ive shot those 766gr slugs and hit tbe outer third CURVATURE of an 8in dia hardwood , blew it OUT OF THE WAY , and STILL SMASHED the shoulders of a trotting 10pt 30 yds beyond that tree at dusk / dark . DRT !!!! Yep river bottom deer huntin is a LITTLE different !!! All kinds of stuff gets in tbe way . Oh yea , the bullet exited .!!!!! Ready to go Lewis ?? Id say so !!!!!!! Good job !!!!!
This thread was alot of fun !!! Figured id thank you for that !!! Youre absolutely right about an amazing elk load !!! Ezpecially in grizzly country !!! One tbing is for sure , youd NEVER drop one faster hit in the shoulders !!! With an exit too !!! Just the best thread , most fun tugggin taffy , sides hurtin post ever !!!:theman:And thats no joke !!! ---Sideshow
 
Fun stuff right there! Thought you might set your Chrony on fire:dance:. On a side note...I was out at a call this afternoon and heard what sounded like Thunder to the East. Figured it may have been you shooting.
 
why not just shoot a 540 grain 45 at 1670
Be nice if it worked the same but for some reason it just dont . At least if we are talkin obstructions it dont . You have no idea how badly i miss that 10ga !!!
 
Last edited:
Be nice if it worked the same but for some reason it just dont . At least if we are talkin obstructions it dont . You have no idea how badly i miss that 10ga !!!
what is difference
 
Kinda disappointed... Thought the high powder charge would have yielded a higher MV. Like 45-70 indicted that’s not out of reach for a 540gr 45cal - I bet it wouldn’t take 170gr to get there.
Your video doesn’t surprise me as my 12b 850gr conical at 950fps isn’t any different than my original 4 bore shotgun 2oz over 5drams.
After shooting my Knight 52, 50 & 45 (all with 500gr + bullets) and very similar powder charges and the making my 12b with the 850gr conical- I believe the ML with larger bores/surface areas actually have less felt recoil. Maybe it’s the surface area and/or the lead bullet itself absorbing some of the recoil? I know the latter occurs.
Thanks for testing.
 
The smaller bullets tendancy to ricochet is THE difference
Can’t say I agree as my cousin shot a 2000 lb Eland, Gemsbok, Kudu and numerous other African game with an original Whitworth- every bullet (pure lead) went thru every one of the animals.. The PH was astonished.
 
Kinda disappointed... Thought the high powder charge would have yielded a higher MV. Like 45-70 indicted that’s not out of reach for a 540gr 45cal - I bet it wouldn’t take 170gr to get there.
Your video doesn’t surprise me as my 12b 850gr conical at 950fps isn’t any different than my original 4 bore shotgun 2oz over 5drams.
After shooting my Knight 52, 50 & 45 (all with 500gr + bullets) and very similar powder charges and the making my 12b with the 850gr conical- I believe the ML with larger bores/surface areas actually have less felt recoil. Maybe it’s the surface area and/or the lead bullet itself absorbing some of the recoil? I know the latter occurs.
Thanks for testing.

I agree Rick!! This makes me wonder what Mr Val Forgett would have been Getting with his Hawken “Hunter” YEARS Ago in Africa with his Chosen 180 Grains of 3F powder? My bet is LESS than what i Just got Today? I can only guess that he was using Goex 3F? And we Know that Goex is Noticeably less than Swiss.
 
why not just shoot a 540 grain 45 at 1670

I agree Bob! But The Smaller .45 Bore is gonna Build More Pressure Getting there. I won’t be Trying it through My Hawken’s and Renegades, They Won’t take that Kind of Abuse, I would end up with Kindling in my Hands.

I bet 120-130 Grains of The same Swiss 3F powder in a .45 Bore Would yield about the Same Velocity as i got Today in this .58 Cal using 170 Grains
 
Can’t say I agree as my cousin shot a 2000 lb Eland, Gemsbok, Kudu and numerous other African game with an original Whitworth- every bullet (pure lead) went thru every one of the animals.. The PH was astonished.
I personally know that the old 370gr Maxi launched from a .50 powered by 90gr of 3f will punch right through both elk and moose. I’ve not recovered one yet.
Walk
 
I personally know that the old 370gr Maxi launched from a .50 powered by 90gr of 3f will punch right through both elk and moose. I’ve not recovered one yet.
Walk

These Big Lead Bullets DRIVE through stuff that’s for sure!

If a guy gets in to Real Blackpowder/Muzzleloaders with the idea of them being “Speed Demons” he is in for a BIG Disappointment! It’s simply NOT there!! This is one reason I RARELY bother taking a Chronograph, I have Shot these things SO MUCH over the last few years that i know REALLY close to what they are Doing, and NOT Doing. Yesterday with this Big .58 Cal was a Different Situation due to the XTRA LARGE POWDER CHARGE, I had never done anything like that before, And really didn’t know what to Expect? But i was CONFIDENT it would NOT Break 2,000 fps, and i was Definitely Right about that. After i Shot the 1st 150 Grain Load (Off Camera) and Seen 1,577 Fps i knew how it was gonna Play out, And you hear me Say it in the Front of the Video (Something to tune of “I think you will be Surprised, it’s not Doing what you might Think?”)

My Old Stainless .50 Cal with a 450-460 Grain Bullet and 95 Grains of Swiss 2F yielded a MV of 1450-1475 fps, that was a STOUT Load in it, I wouldn’t have wanted to push it anymore than that.

My .45 Cals with 530-540 Grain Bullets and 80-85 Grains of Powder Run about 1,300-1,350 fps

My .35 Cal 1:15 Twist 32” Barreled Muzzleloader with 340 Grain Bullet taught me another Lesson about Velocity in these things. I expected to get 2,000 fps? Or there Close abouts, NOT THE CASE, 60-70 Grains gave me the Best Results, Velocity was 1,500-1,600 fps, I decided to Up the Charge to 100 Grains, I barely Broke 1,700 Fps, and in Doing so i COMPLETELY COOKED a Brand New Treso/Ampco Nipple. These Smaller Bores, With REALLY Fast Twists, pushing Heavy Bullets build BIG PRESSURE, MUCH Faster than a Larger Bore.
 
If BIG Velocity is your Goal? It takes Light Bullets (325 Grains or Less) And MAX Charges of BH209 Powder, Better yet Go Full Smokeless. When i heard Bestill Mention Velocity of “Woody” (His Smokeless Rig, 1,760 Yard, 1 Mile deal) That was IMPRESSIVE to say the LEAST!! That Rig is SPANKING a .338 Lapua Magnum, And The .338 LM was the “GOLD Standard BAD @SS” Long Range Rig for MANY Years, and Stil is Today (Though Now days we have the BIG Cheytac’s Which have Taken over) The .338 Lapua Magnum is VERY WELL Known for OVER 2,000 Yards. So when i heard the the Ballistics of Bestill’s Smokeless Rig “Woody” 1,760 Yards Should be a CAKE WALK for that Rig!!

What i am Saying is, DON’T EXPECT ANYTHING REMOTELY LIKE THE ABOVE With Real Blackpowder, Triple Seven, And Pyrodex, it’s simply NOT Gonna Happen, Not even Close!!

A Normal Hunting Rig/Muzzleloader with REAL BLACKPOWDER, Or Triple Seven Powder, with a 450-460 Grain Lead Conical with 80-100 Grains of Either powder will get you 1300-1500 Fps, 1,550 with a Good Tail Wind :) That’s Just what they Do Folks :lewis:
 
Can’t say I agree as my cousin shot a 2000 lb Eland, Gemsbok, Kudu and numerous other African game with an original Whitworth- every bullet (pure lead) went thru every one of the animals.. The PH was astonished.
Like i said in the sententences before that one ---obstructions . I hunted those river bottom woody shictangles for years with all manner of guns . The type of stuff your really not supposed to shoot through . I KNOW what worked and what DIDNT !!!! Youd hunt there too if you saw those bucks !!!!! Im lookin at havin a mz rebored to a 58 shootin a heavier bullet with less powder than Lewis and am honestly correctly WORRIED that it wont be enough . The gun wont handle more than 120gr and thats pushin it !!! The same gun that Canadian Mounties drop polar bears with in Churchill is what worked obstructions and all RELIABLY , 10ga 766gr @1600fps . Nothin smaller .....
My less than 7lb scoped knight will be a hand full Attemping to keep up . I HOPE it can......but truly doubt it . Thinkin i NEED a Rice barrel with 4140 steel about .185 thicker too as well as 4" longer or a McGowen 58 barrel as its round already . Less money too . I just found those . And lets not forget a much bigger recoil lug with cross bolts in the stock for a 58 . Ive already added another stock bolt and its pillar bedded .The stock also has a 6" steel #8 threaded rod epoxied into the grip area at 3/8 in dia . All this for 140grV blackhorn w./ 275 to 400gr bullet presently . I "get it" with recoil too . I DONT know it all , but experiance has been a great teacher .
 
Last edited:
After watching the video, that was pretty mild recoil. But again, that's using black powder. ;)
True , the exotic powders make a difference , a big one . Even shotgun powder .
 
Last edited:
I GENUINELY Love my Muzzleloaders for what they DO, and what they DON’T DO :lewis: I understand them extremely well, I know what to expect from them, and they FAITHFULLY Deliver EVERY TIME. Simple FACT IS, I don’t need ANYMORE Velocity than what they do, These Big lead Bullets traveling in their 1300 to 1500 Fps Range PUNCH HOLES COMPLETELY THROUGH Big Game, BIG GAME the Size of Elk/Moose :lewis: What more could Possibly be needed? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

I have seen pics of Game Taken with the HIGH BC Bullets, They are an EXPLOSIVE BOMB, Which goes AGAINST EVERYTHING I believe in for a Good Hunting Bullet. NO WAY IN HELL would i use Bullets like that on Game, I Hunt so that i can EAT the Game that i Harvest, The LAST thing i want to do is Blow it all to pieces, Make a Big Bloodshot Mess out of Everything, and have to Throw it away, That makes a BUNCH of Sense huh? I couldn’t be More UNIMPRESSED with a Bullet, For Hunting that is. I have seen guy’s for YEARS say “There’s Nothing on them Front Shoulders” What a CROCK of BS!! I have eaten a LOT of GOOD Meat from the Front Shoulders
 
I GENUINELY Love my Muzzleloaders for what they DO, and what they DON’T DO :lewis: I understand them extremely well, I know what to expect from them, and they FAITHFULLY Deliver EVERY TIME. Simple FACT IS, I don’t need ANYMORE Velocity than what they do, These Big lead Bullets traveling in their 1300 to 1500 Fps Range PUNCH HOLES COMPLETELY THROUGH Big Game, BIG GAME the Size of Elk/Moose :lewis: What more could Possibly be needed? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!

I have seen pics of Game Taken with the HIGH BC Bullets, They are an EXPLOSIVE BOMB, Which goes AGAINST EVERYTHING I believe in for a Good Hunting Bullet. NO WAY IN HELL would i use Bullets like that on Game, I Hunt so that i can EAT the Game that i Harvest, The LAST thing i want to do is Blow it all to pieces, Make a Big Bloodshot Mess out of Everything, and have to Throw it away, That makes a BUNCH of Sense huh? I couldn’t be More UNIMPRESSED with a Bullet, For Hunting that is. I have seen guy’s for YEARS say “There’s Nothing on them Front Shoulders” What a CROCK of BS!! I have eaten a LOT of GOOD Meat from the Front Shoulders
Lewis i do agree but youve kinda missed what ive said . #1) Im not talkin about my 300 win mag here . #2) I generally brine shoulders ,(most all blood is gone) and smoke them . #3) Massive hydrostatic shock is velocities buddy . #4) Big lead isnt going to achieve high velocity without our own "skeletal restructureimg" at the boom . #5) what ive said isnt BS . #6) HOW i used that 50 NOW , hasnt a thing to do with what i plan for a 58 . #7) This type of hunting river bottom shictangle isnt for everybody and is HIGHLY SPECIALIZED . #8) 40 yrs of it has taught me well . This isnt my 1st " Goat Ropin " . I can only hope youll see this.....:lewis:
 
Take 2 bullets. Both of equal mass, metplat size, lead alloy and impact speed. One though has a higher sectional density. Such as a 500gr 45cal vs a 500gr 58cal. The one with the higher SD (45cal) will almost always penetrate better.

.452cal would be 350 SD
.580cal would be 212 SD

Huge difference but either would be fine for medium to most large game.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top