BIG Minie’s, BIG Powder Charges

[Sideshow]

My comments were not pointed your way at all. You are talking big and heavy, as am I. Same page in fact.
I too have seen both Lewis and Ron shoot them hotrod sidelocks to amazing distance and accuracy, including in the odd hunting scenario, but I also know that the vast majority of these amazing shots are done off a bench, in perfect conditions with a target that doesn’t move. Remember that in ethical hunting the prey deserves an ethical kill, and when there is a space in time between the shot and impact where a step may be taken, a turn made or a simple wind gust becomes a plausible factor, is that shot then ethical? This question also relates to the post you have below on the .54 round ball. Yes, it is capable without a doubt, and has proven that in the past as you’ve stated, however the requirement to collect meat for survival (as it was in them “good ol’days”) makes ethics irrelevant as compared to hunting as it is done today. Keep the roundball to its true effectiveness and enjoy the hunt!
Walk

Boy ole Lewis can shoot cant he !!! I can do that with a 300 win mag but honestly not a muzzleloader . You are ultimately right without reservation on the ethical shots . I didnt hunt that river bottom for a long time before and after i could no longer get the 10ga ammo . Just wasnt right . It was a bit of a gamble even then if i exceeded proven effective yardage which wasnt very far at all . Hard to just let him walk on but you learn as you grow . Had to do that with an 18pt wide , tall , and heavy and a few others too . You spoke truth and i respect that alot .
The 54 roundball wasnt mine . Ive never shot one at all .
Im seeing this with multiple people speaking can be hard to follow at times for all of us as to who said what and to whom . Makes my head swim at times.....got a life jacket ??? Lol !!!
Sideshow

 

[451whitworth]

if it actually reached 1670

True

 

[Idaholewis]

There's something to be learned from each one of these posts
You guys that are ruining meat by shooting through the shoulders its just not necessary, short of dangerous game.

Yep! Yet we hear about, and see it pretty much every year. With a Large majority of them thinking it’s COOL, Showing the “Devastation” Their Bullet did. Not a Care in the World about the Whole Front end of the Animal, all the Meat that they Destroyed.

I was taught from the Age of 9 Years old (When i Started Hunting) Where to Shoot Deer. If a deer is Standing perfectly Broadside, Shoot just Behind the Foreleg, Through the Lungs. If the Shot presented itself, and i was comfortable in taking it? Take a Center Neck Shot. My Dad, and my Grandfather instilled this is me! I was also taught to Shoot Premium Bullets that DON’T Fragment, Blow apart Intentionally by Design. Following the above Advice, In ALL of my Years Hunting, and Harvesting Big Game, From TONS of Deer, To Many Elk, EVERY Year I’ve Hunted, I have lost VERY VERY LITTLE meat from a Poorly placed Shot.

 

[Idaholewis]

if it actually reached 1670

Exactly, I wouldn’t even try in My .45 Cal Rifles.

 

[Sideshow]

Yep! Yet we hear about, and see it pretty much every year. With a Large majority of them thinking it’s COOL, Showing the “Devastation” Their Bullet did. Not a Care in the World about the Whole Front end of the Animal, all the Meat that they Destroyed.

I was taught from the Age of 9 Years old (When i Started Hunting) Where to Shoot Deer. If a deer is Standing perfectly Broadside, Shoot just Behind the Foreleg, Through the Lungs. If the Shot presented itself, and i was comfortable in taking it? Take a Center Neck Shot. My Dad, and my Grandfather instilled this is me! I was also taught to Shoot Premium Bullets that DON’T Fragment, Blow apart Intentionally by Design. Following the above Advice, In ALL of my Years Hunting, and Harvesting Big Game, From TONS of Deer, To Many Elk, EVERY Year I’ve Hunted, I have lost VERY VERY LITTLE meat from a Poorly placed Shot.

You ever try brineing and vinegar soaking that meat with spices too then smokin it ??? I love that stuff !!! Go to far with it and you got jerky !!! All good to me . Nothin wasted .

Trust me , im a common sewer......

 

[52Bore]

IDLewis- wonder if/how much the short bbl on that 58 is costing you MV from the large charge?
Thinking of British Sporting rifles and even Hawken bbl lengths as the both utilized longer bbl in many bore sizes including .58’s (0.577).

 

[Idaholewis]

IDLewis- wonder if/how much the short bbl on that 58 is costing you MV from the large charge?
Thinking of British Sporting rifles and even Hawken bbl lengths as the both utilized longer bbl in many bore sizes including .58’s (0.577).

I thought about that as well Rick, i bet it’s a Bit? I would have to measure, but that Barrel Loaded yesterday, I probably had 22” or so of Useful Barrel length is ALL? I will measure, and figure it Out

 

[Idaholewis]

IDLewis- wonder if/how much the short bbl on that 58 is costing you MV from the large charge?
Thinking of British Sporting rifles and even Hawken bbl lengths as the both utilized longer bbl in many bore sizes including .58’s (0.577).

Measured to a VERY Close Approximate of the Powder Charge and Bullet, 22 inches. That’s Not much Barrel Length for 170 Grains of Powder, I wish i could see this with about 28” of usable Barrel length, I would bet the Results to be quite different than I experienced yesterday. Kinda like a Magnum CF, 99.9% of them use 26” Bbls, and they NEED it. The 24” Bbls with Magnum Cartridges Suffer loss of Velocity, Sometimes quite Substantial

 

[Idaholewis]

IDLewis- wonder if/how much the short bbl on that 58 is costing you MV from the large charge?
Thinking of British Sporting rifles and even Hawken bbl lengths as the both utilized longer bbl in many bore sizes including .58’s (0.577).

This little experiment REALLY got me to thinking/wondering, What was Mr. Val Forgett Getting from this SAME Short Barreled Rifle in the Early 70s? And remember, he was pushing a 610 Grain Minie, From a Shiloh Mold Called a “Stake Buster” Something like that? I bet his Velocity was nowhere near mine? Yet he stil Took all the BIG Creatures in Africa

 

[Walkingeagle]

Measured to a VERY Close Approximate of the Powder Charge and Bullet, 22 inches. That’s Not much Barrel Length for 170 Grains of Powder, I wish i could see this with about 28” of usable Barrel length, I would bet the Results to be quite different than I experienced yesterday. Kinda like a Magnum CF, 99.9% of them use 26” Bbls, and they NEED it. The 24” Bbls with Magnum Cartridges Suffer loss of Velocity, Sometimes quite Substantial

Agree on bbl length, yet there is still something to it. I shot a 22” .300wm for years that people said was really just a .30-06 with more recoil due to the short bbl, BUT we must compare apples to apples. I like short barrels and most .30-06’s come with 22” bbls, so that .300 still packed more punch. Now, I have a .338wm in a 20” Savage, which still packs one heck of a punch just due to bullet mass. I’ve not yet chrono’d it.
My favourite muzzleloader is a 26” .54 cal percussion Renegade that has been restocked with more correct furniture. Me and that .54 have collected serious meat with a roundball!!
Walk

 

[52Bore]

This little experiment REALLY got me to thinking/wondering, What was Mr. Val Forgett Getting from this SAME Short Barreled Rifle in the Early 70s? And remember, he was pushing a 610 Grain Minie, From a Shiloh Mold Called a “Stake Buster” Something like that? I bet his Velocity was nowhere near mine? Yet he stil Took all the BIG Creatures in Africa

Thinking of the early-mid 1800’s ML era African Hunters - they increase the bores, charges, then hardened the RB. Then conicals came into play.. I don’t think Val did anything unique, just built a modern repo as the 58/.577 has been around for nearly 200yrs.
I’m still thinking of original .58 Hawken with a 36” Bbl.? Hmmm- But, they were RB.
Hawken did make a .69 cal flint for Col.Ashley that used 180gr charges in a 39” Bbl I believe- again that’s RB.

 

[52Bore]

Had to check myself..
1847

 

[Idaholewis]

Had to check myself..
1847
View attachment 6465

Awesome stuff 52bore, That looks a BUNCH like my Bullet.

I need to do some Work on the Trigger pull of this NA Hawken Hunter Rifle of mine, Then Sit Down and Work out a Load for it. My next Test is gonna be 80, and 100 Grains of Powder, i am Curious about velocity there? And i would like to Sit down and Shoot the Rifle For Accuracy, See how this 3 Groove Bore Shoots?

 

[Walkingeagle]

Boy ole Lewis can shoot cant he !!! I can do that with a 300 win mag but honestly not a muzzleloader . You are ultimately right without reservation on the ethical shots . I didnt hunt that river bottom for a long time before and after i could no longer get the 10ga ammo . Just wasnt right . It was a bit of a gamble even then if i exceeded proven effective yardage which wasnt very far at all . Hard to just let him walk on but you learn as you grow . Had to do that with an 18pt wide , tall , and heavy and a few others too . You spoke truth and i respect that alot .
The 54 roundball wasnt mine . Ive never shot one at all .
Im seeing this with multiple people speaking can be hard to follow at times for all of us as to who said what and to whom . Makes my head swim at times.....got a life jacket ??? Lol !!!
Sideshow

Sorry, rushed typing. It wasn’t your comments regarding the roundball and I miss quoted. My mistake sir.
Walk

 

[Sideshow]

Been in some of the most snagnasty, briar infested, throne apple spiked, burdock loaded stuff, willow marshes, including bog marshes where no sane person would ever venture with floatation. Yeah the big boys like that. That stuff is for the youngsters now days. Yup, I've killed a few in places so bad, I just thought it best to just start a fire and eat the damn thing right there.
But for most, they don't need to ruin all that meat.

Yep and nor would i if i didnt have to hit them tbere so i CAN recover them . You know the territory i see . 60 and i still can do it and that Amazes me !!!!!! Besides my smoked meat Always draws a crowd !!! Its just less work with a prefered shot from a different hunting area to prepare . I dont throw anything away easily . I butcher myself with no fat , conective tissue , or bone as well . Most guys dont do that either .

 

[Sideshow]

Sorry, rushed typing. It wasn’t your comments regarding the roundball and I miss quoted. My mistake sir.
Walk

No big thing Walkingeagle . Its all good . By the way i appreciate you being cordial but honest , just Sideshow works for me .