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Black horn 209 future?

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Valkyrie

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Mar 4, 2020
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I live in a part of Fl that apparently there isn't much muzzleloading nor market for much at all here. Though, the local Walmart had about a hand full ( IDK exactly ) 5-6 at most, I saw one time. Thats it, haven't seen any again since, Then the closest Bass Pro shop is Gainesville Fl. they raised their prices from 35-36.00 per 10oz bottle to 46.99 per. I did not buy any. I'd hate to think of whats being charged now in some places. 50.00 per 10oz bottle is robbery. 35.00 per was high enough. I just checked Powder Valley & MidSouth Shooters ( the 2 cheapest online places for 5lb bottles that I'm aware of, they're both sold out with NO backorders. Holy freakin cow! What now?
I feel your pain. I visited that store frequently while I was still working, and was never impressed with their prices. I see 209 there now at 49.99. (I ended up buying a 5# jug from Midsouth in a large order in april and paid 234.00). Same story on BPro prices Daytona. All this hurts because 209 shoots lights out in my two inlines and is super easy to clean up .
 
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mnoland30

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Dec 1, 2015
Messages
165
It is all about supply and demand. Most everybody likes Bh209 so much that they are willing to pay over $.85 a shot for it. I picked up 10 lbs. of Black MZ at Sportsman's last year for $100. I'm retired and can't afford to shoot as much as I like at BH 209 prices. I also don't shoot bullets that cost $2 each. It is convenient, but if you all would stop using it for a while, the price would go down. I could not tell a difference in accuracy between any of the four powders. BH209 gives slightly higher velocity than 777, but not enough to justify the price. Basically, even with 777, I'm saving $.40 every time I run a patch down the barrel, and $.70 when I use Black MZ.
With 100 gr. loads
Black MZ $10/lb $.15/shot
Pyrodex RS $18/lb $.26/shot
777 $30/lb $.45/shot
BH209 $59/lb $.85/shot
 

JonE

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Jun 11, 2020
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It is all about supply and demand. Most everybody likes Bh209 so much that they are willing to pay over $.85 a shot for it. I picked up 10 lbs. of Black MZ at Sportsman's last year for $100. I'm retired and can't afford to shoot as much as I like at BH 209 prices. I also don't shoot bullets that cost $2 each. It is convenient, but if you all would stop using it for a while, the price would go down. I could not tell a difference in accuracy between any of the four powders. BH209 gives slightly higher velocity than 777, but not enough to justify the price. Basically, even with 777, I'm saving $.40 every time I run a patch down the barrel, and $.70 when I use Black MZ.
With 100 gr. loads
Black MZ $10/lb $.15/shot
Pyrodex RS $18/lb $.26/shot
777 $30/lb $.45/shot
BH209 $59/lb $.85/shot
When I shoot at our club or range, I only use 50gr charges = 0.115 oz
Black Mz $10/lb
Elephant BP $8/lb

Trying to convert my cost now :moon:
 

Brandonj92

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Oct 11, 2020
Messages
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I only use like 72 grains by weight for my matches I shoot once a year- out of a 30in tube I get about 1200fps with a 500 grain Creedmoor style bullet. Only use a jug per match and I only shoot the stuff once a year- everything else I shoot is t7 even for hunting.
the 5 jugs I bought should last me for about 5 years. Black horn has the best SD and ES in my testing for the break action match I shoot.
Ironically we shoot at Buffalo silhouettes which are easy to hit until you tip past that 800yrd Mark- it honestly makes me wonder how the people of the old west took 1000yrd shots with sharps and what not- because I’ve done gas checking (total pita to start) instead of wads and bumped my charges to the max accurate node and even at 1450-1500fps-this would match a sharp 50-90- my hit % was about the same- I just was adding a little less elevation to the shot- but recoil was terrible.
 

Brandonj92

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Oct 11, 2020
Messages
46
well I just remembered something else- BH 209 maybe done because of the new triple 8 powder- I completely forgot because of the lack of interest in the fire stick BS. If they were reloadable it’d be cooler but sheezzz 2.75 a shot is way too much.
 

Ninering62

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Aug 20, 2019
Messages
660
I feel your pain. I visited that store frequently while I was still working, and was never impressed with their prices. I see 209 there now at 49.99. (I ended up buying a 5# jug from Midsouth in a large order in april and paid 234.00). Same story on BPro prices Daytona. All this hurts because 209 shoots lights out in my two inlines and is super easy to clean up .
Thanks Valkyre, I'm with ya on the BH 209, I got 5lb bottle from Powder Valley around the same time. I have a few lbs of T7fff I shoot a cpl diff bullets with just fine, but nothin beats the 209.
 

Valkyrie

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Mar 4, 2020
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Thanks Valkyre, I'm with ya on the BH 209, I got 5lb bottle from Powder Valley around the same time. I have a few lbs of T7fff I shoot a cpl diff bullets with just fine, but nothin beats the 209.
Ninering62, sounds like you may not be that far from me, where do you shoot at??
I'm shooting at gateway r&p club in jacksonville. ( I live sw of j.ville.)
 

Ninering62

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Aug 20, 2019
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660
This malwart only carries Pyrodex RS and BH209. No T7. And they have a bunch of the firesticks too.
I gotta get to the local Wallymart & see if they have anything muzzleloader related still on their shelves here. I am quite curious in fact. I'm glad you can find what ya need to shoot there Muzzy
 

BadgerRidge

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Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
67
I always pick mine up at the end of the season, at my local Walmart, when they slash prices. Not the most reliable method, but when I find it I buy all I can (so I still have some from 2 years ago).

As for comparison of prices... to me that is hard. Mostly apples and oranges because the lack of sticky fouling locking up breech plugs... the fact that I can shoot all day without cleaning, and at the end just cleaning with standard gun cleaning products, and the fact that at heavier bullet weights I'm getting better performance, and better or equal accuracy (and little change in impact due to hot/cold weather compared to Black and its other substitutes)... to me this makes it a hard comparison. To me, the price increase is backed up by so many other improvements, i don't even bother with the math.

I do remind folks making the comparison that buying a 10oz by weight bottle of BH209 is equivalent to buying `~14 oz by volume of black powder or other substitutes, 14 oz in a pound... so you are getting 14/16 of the volumetric equivalent shots... not 10/16... so when you look at it by a by volume (which is how we are ''supposed'' to load)... and factor that increase from 10 to 14, some of the sting of it's cost is taken away.
 

edmehlig

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May 19, 2005
Messages
2,426
Just saw on MSN News on my computer that Walmart is supposed to stop selling guns, and ammo.?????? I just went to my local Walmart and they are right shelves are bare. The only thing they are selling is cleaning products, slings, etc.
 
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michiganmuzzy

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Nov 11, 2018
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Just saw on MSN News on my computer that Walmart is supposed to stop selling guns, and ammo.?????? I just went to my local Walmart and they are right shelves are bare. The only thing they are selling is cleaning products, slings, etc.
Better stock up on what ever they do have left.
 

45-70

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Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
866
I always pick mine up at the end of the season, at my local Walmart, when they slash prices. Not the most reliable method, but when I find it I buy all I can (so I still have some from 2 years ago).

As for comparison of prices... to me that is hard. Mostly apples and oranges because the lack of sticky fouling locking up breech plugs... the fact that I can shoot all day without cleaning, and at the end just cleaning with standard gun cleaning products, and the fact that at heavier bullet weights I'm getting better performance, and better or equal accuracy (and little change in impact due to hot/cold weather compared to Black and its other substitutes)... to me this makes it a hard comparison. To me, the price increase is backed up by so many other improvements, i don't even bother with the math.

I do remind folks making the comparison that buying a 10oz by weight bottle of BH209 is equivalent to buying `~14 oz by volume of black powder or other substitutes, 14 oz in a pound... so you are getting 14/16 of the volumetric equivalent shots... not 10/16... so when you look at it by a by volume (which is how we are ''supposed'' to load)... and factor that increase from 10 to 14, some of the sting of it's cost is taken away.
since when is 14 oz in a pound
 

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