Blackhorn 209

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Mnt monkey

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Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
776
I've never been in the mindset of hoarding or stocking up and putting stuff away but it will be hard for me from here forward not to,, I've never had one of the ammo shortages from the past 20 years affect me,, loading and shooting center fire always had multiple cartridges ,multiple powders and could always just jump on another gun / powder load,, keep shooting, this shortage help me really assess how much powder I do use at least in relation to blackhorn ,I don't plan on hording it ,but I'm sure going to buy what I need for about a 5-year span. Since it has an excellent shelf life. Trying to expand and learn how to shoot other weapon systems side lock etc,so I won't be limited to black horn , and I think I have enough smokeless muzzleloaders that I can knock my black horn needs down to about 10 lb a year still I don't have 10 lb sitting on the shelf,,, my stock up goal is 10lbs.
 

Docsv2pistol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,202
Since I have never pulled the trigger on a single shot of BH209, let me offer an outsider's perspective on the past two years here observing, and participating on Modern Muzzleloading.

1. First, I don't think there have been very many shooters that have truly been able to hoard BH209 substitute powder in quantities that really qualify for the definition of hoarding. Hoarding, as I understand the definition being applied to BH209 (really any powder), means having your immediate needs fulfilled (1 year), your intermediate needs fulfilled (2-5 years), your long term needs fulfilled (5-20 years), and such a surplus to needs that one could easily become a powder broker.

From my observations here at MM it was obvious that for whatever reasons, there simply never was an adequate surplus of BH209 in the United States to make it easy for any one shooter to stock up in the quantities required to fit a hoarding definition.

Shooters had to work hard at being in the right place at the right time in order to score the end of the season discounted prices 10 ounce bottles that were sold off in the big box stores.

The 1-gallon, 5 pound jugs never seemed to be available in anything but a hit and miss kind of situation.

No one distributor, online store, big box store, or independent brick and mortar store, ever seemed to have an adequate, year round supply of BH209 that could satisfy its customer base, regardless of how small that base was.

2. Second, if the inline muzzleloading world in the United States, only has a hard core population of 10,000 shooters that shoot 15 pounds per year of BH209, then that amounts to 150,000 pounds per year right there. That doesn't leave very much to spread around of what I have spitballed was approximately 500,000 pounds (at most) of a yearly BH209 production total.

The above is nothing more than a wild *** guess. But, you can get the idea that I am trying to put forth.

THERE NEVER has been enough BH209 to go around. SOMEBODY has ALWAYS been getting the short end of the stick. WITHOUT a LOT of REALLY HARD WORK, hoarding has been, is now, not very possible.

Without really deep pockets, and a lot of time spent driving to different stores, or surfing online to try and purchase (before Covid-19); I can't see but a very, very, very small number of shooters that were able to really hoard BH209.
 

ENCORE50A

HUBBARD LAKE-MI
Joined
Dec 4, 2009
Messages
4,933
Up until Covid & the CVA Paramount release, I never had any issues getting BH209, rather 5# containers or the 10oz bottles. When I'd start to get low, I'd just order more. Never had a problem finding it or getting it.
I've never hoarded it, but have always had an ample supply. If I find 5#'s, I'll buy it and if they will let me have 10#, I'll buy that.
"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush".

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Buy it when you find it.......
 

flounder

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Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,096
Sorry bit those who buy everything out on the shelf remind me of the trailer park barbie I saw coming out of a Walmart just beaming. This was a little over a year ago. Her cart was umb full of toilet paper and she couldn't have been more proud of herself.
 

Wedgy

Supporter
Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2021
Messages
18
Components are made in runs once a year then they make something else, so generally the less popular stuff will hit the shelves and be in stock until it's gone then you have to wait until the next run is made.
 

eekjellander

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Joined
Feb 13, 2020
Messages
804
Sorry bit those who buy everything out on the shelf remind me of the trailer park barbie I saw coming out of a Walmart just beaming. This was a little over a year ago. Her cart was umb full of toilet paper and she couldn't have been more proud of herself.
Reread some of the previous posts! Nothing about Barbi and toilet paper applies (Here) ,just folks in the right place at the right time because they are smart enough to know if they shoot they had better buy while they can cause those that don"t have expensive fence posts . I shoot enough different powders and different primer systems that I should be set for a while , (But I"m not) and will keep on buying till I am (no shame here) just willin to pay/work/drive more than you/Ed
 

flounder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,096
Who are the winners and losers?
Manufacturer...winner
Retailer.....winner
Purchaser....winner, I guess
Other hunters and shooters....lose
My point is that we will never get through the shortages that hurt us all if people buy out the product the minute it hits the shelves.
Sorry if I offended you, not really my intent.
 

Docsv2pistol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2020
Messages
1,202
When people post a value judgement about another member here without personally having communicated over the phone, or in person, with that member I find it both odd, and disturbing.

To call someone like MtMonkey a hoarder, when I know that the 4 pounds of BH209 that he just purchased, has little likelihood of still being around 2 months from now, is both insulting, and uncalled for.

I have been talking with him on the phone for over 2 years now. He shoots his muzzleloaders at least 3 times a week, 52 weeks a year. He hunts, 12 months a year (lots of feral hogs where he lives).

So, for those of you who are so quick to judge.....

Take a long hard look at yourself, and ask whatever higher power that you believe in....

"Am I so perfect that I can stand in front of this mirror judging others, without myself being judged in return?"
 

treepotato

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
103
When people post a value judgement about another member here without personally having communicated over the phone, or in person, with that member I find it both odd, and disturbing.

To call someone like MtMonkey a hoarder, when I know that the 4 pounds of BH209 that he just purchased, has little likelihood of still being around 2 months from now, is both insulting, and uncalled for.

I have been talking with him on the phone for over 2 years now. He shoots his muzzleloaders at least 3 times a week, 52 weeks a year. He hunts, 12 months a year (lots of feral hogs where he lives).

So, for those of you who are so quick to judge.....

Take a long hard look at yourself, and ask whatever higher power that you believe in....

"Am I so perfect that I can stand in front of this mirror judging others, without myself being judged in return?"
I normally just read and not post here; I'm still pretty new to muzzleloading so don't have much, if any, wisdom to share so I just read and absorb. But this post compelled me to log in just to click the thumbs up button.

As for me, I too just scored 4 jugs of BH209 at Walmart. Between me, my son, my daughters, my SIL, and a new neighbor who enjoys joining in on our shooting I doubt it will last through Christmas. For these group shoots I and the others tend to shoot a bunch, and BH209 is easier to keep clean and load the gun with less crud ring issues. I can get by with 777 or other options for hunting just fine, but BH209 is great for family fun. I suspect once these cans are empty I won't find more until next summer when the next manufacturing run is available.

Our next problem is going to be running out of 209 primers.
 

michiganmuzzy

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Supporter
Joined
Nov 11, 2018
Messages
3,950
If we all keep clearing the shelves of it, maybe Hodgdon will increase production? Do i hoard powder? No but... If i see it at a good/fair price I'll probably buy up 2+ bottles. Do i have enough to last a year or two? Yes but I'm still going to buy it when i find it. I think technically i am a powder hoarder. My apologies to the guys that came after me, looking for bh209 only to find it's gone and I don't have any ill will toward the guy before me doing the same, and leaving me empty handed.
 

BadgerRidge

Simple Effective Solutions
Joined
May 22, 2015
Messages
160
If we all keep clearing the shelves of it, maybe Hodgdon will increase production? Do i hoard powder? No but... If i see it at a good/fair price I'll probably buy up 2+ bottles. Do i have enough to last a year or two? Yes but I'm still going to buy it when i find it. I think technically i am a powder hoarder. My apologies to the guys that came after me, looking for bh209 only to find it's gone and I don't have any ill will toward the guy before me doing the same, and leaving me empty handed.

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Captialism is all supply and demand. You think Walmart doesn't see that 5 bottles hit the shelf and quickly left? You think they don't know what store, & shelf those bottles were on and for how long? They don't know what credit card number purchased them... and if that card ever did a return, you don't think they know what name and address they went home to?

They know, and they'll use it to determine when to buy more and what store to send it to.... and they will push their suppliers to get it to them when they want it.

That's called capitalism folks. Quit sitting on your couch trying to decide who its good for, or what part of it is good or bad... its just capitalism (which is overall good for the people, when it isn't manipulated by Communist Elitist Technocrats).

My .02USD

Tom
 

Ninering62

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
983
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Captialism is all supply and demand. You think Walmart doesn't see that 5 bottles hit the shelf and quickly left? You think they don't know what store, & shelf those bottles were on and for how long? They don't know what credit card number purchased them... and if that card ever did a return, you don't think they know what name and address they went home to?

They know, and they'll use it to determine when to buy more and what store to send it to.... and they will push their suppliers to get it to them when they want it.

That's called capitalism folks. Quit sitting on your couch trying to decide who its good for, or what part of it is good or bad... its just capitalism (which is overall good for the people, when it isn't manipulated by Communist Elitist Technocrats).

My .02USD

Tom
Great post. Well said Tom
 

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