Blackhorn Frustration

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

CCI Large Rifle #200 primers

I would try some Large Rifle Magnum primers.

 

[Ninering62]

Why don't you drop your powder charge down to 110 gr to 120 gr by volume to see what happens.

Theres no need to do that with that gun

 

[lwh723]

Solve the leakage problem and your ignition issues should go away.

https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/paramount-arrowhead-gen2-upgrade/

 

[toggy]

Are the large rifle primers hot enough for the powder? I do not have experience with the rifle primers, I use federal 209A which are very hot and recommended by blackhorn.

I was getting a good amount of blow by which meant that cleaning the face of the firing pin bushing and even inside the action was painful. I was getting fouling on the firing pin spring! Cleaning the back of the breech plug where the primer went in was also a pain.

I now use o-rings in the primer pocket and I have no blow by.

I didn't want to have to go to installing o-rings but they work great.

Additionally, you might want a tighter fit on the sabot. From reading a lot of reviews I don't think the power belts are very good. I used them my first season and killed a deer but I didn't get great groups.

So I think your primer and slugs are suspect.

 

[goco4game]

May I suggest a different take on all of this? Everything that you have described as BH209 problems seems totally normal to me! And yes, I am big fan of BH209. When I started shooting it several years ago, I too was shocked at the large amount of residue left after only one shot on a clean bore. But it is very soft and does not affect subsequent loading. Have you tried it without swabbing between shots? You should be able to load and fire almost indefinitely without swabbing.
As far as the breech plug, it's also normal for the powder end to get very sooted up. This is harmless as well. When I'm done shooting, I remove the breechplug and put it in a small container of about a 50/50 mixture of citrus industrial cleaner/water to soak for a couple of hours. Then it easily comes off with a small wire brush. As far as the breech end of the breechplug, I am not familiar with your type of ignition, whether or not it requires cleaning every several shots like the standard 209 primer plugs.
Hopefully everything is fine as is and you can just enjoy shooting your new rifle!

 

[cook]

Easiest thing: reduce the amount of powder you’re using. My chronograph suggested (T/C Strike) no appreciable difference in muzzle velocity between 110g(volume) and 120g.

 

[eazyduzit94]

I would try some Large Rifle Magnum primers.

CVA advises against this per their owners manual they send with the gun.

 

[eazyduzit94]

CVA’s official statement:

 

[eazyduzit94]

Also for fun, I contacted Muzzle-loader.com to see if they have had anyone complain to them about my same issue. I’m sure they get all kinds of comments. Here is their reply:

 

[Smalltown]

I have a Paramount 40 cal, and I’m really happy with it so far. I use Federal Gold Metal Match Primers. There very clean and consistent. I started out using 140 gr. BH 209 just to feel the power and put a smile on my face. In southern Indiana we don’t normally shoot much over 50 yards unless your on a big corn or soybean field or really open woods. I run a spit patch down ( not at all wet ) after each shot and was pulling out a good bit of fouling, even with BH 209 certainly being the cleanest of all. After feeling all that power, I said ok , I’ve wasted enough of this unbelievably expensive powder, now let’s take it back down to 80 grains and see what happens. Well let me tell you, that 80 grains is still plenty enough for what most of the southern Indiana hunters are gonna do, and the groups were tighter as you would expect, and when I ran a spit patch, there wasn’t much fouling at all. The patch would slide down and back out so smooth and easy, and when I got back to the house, clean up was very fast and easy. I’m not at all finished testing. So far I haven’t shot past 100 yards, but the group’s are tight and the barrel is clean, and I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a nice buck at 200 yards, maybe further. Yes, it was designed to be a long range muzzleloader, but if you know your hunting area doesn’t offer a 400 yard shot, then set it up to be appropriate for your hunting area, such is what I have done to my Paramount 40. Remember to use blue molybdenum on your breech plug threads, and very sparingly. If you get lube up in the bore, then when the fire hits that lube, it will make a big o mess. Your Paramount is not a lemon. You will get it all worked out. You just got some trial and error. Be patient. Ask plenty questions.

 

[10gaugemag]

Are the large rifle primers hot enough for the powder? I do not have experience with the rifle primers, I use federal 209A which are very hot and recommended by blackhorn.

I was getting a good amount of blow by which meant that cleaning the face of the firing pin bushing and even inside the action was painful. I was getting fouling on the firing pin spring! Cleaning the back of the breech plug where the primer went in was also a pain.

I now use o-rings in the primer pocket and I have no blow by.

I didn't want to have to go to installing o-rings but they work great.

Additionally, you might want a tighter fit on the sabot. From reading a lot of reviews I don't think the power belts are very good. I used them my first season and killed a deer but I didn't get great groups.

So I think your primer and slugs are suspect.

Primer should be fine. A 209 Mag primer is probably not nearly as hot as an LR primer, it wasn't designed to ignite massive amounts of powder as. The LR was designed for.

I am thinking loose bullets.

 

[10gaugemag]

OP have you pushed a Powerbelt down the bore, turned the barrel with muzzle towards the ground, shook the gun vertically and seen if the bullet may be slipping?

I am not saying it is slipping g before you're firing but I am wondering if the fit is too loose.

No need to load w powder. Push bullet down the bore until it hits home, turn gun w muzzle towards the floor, shake vertically pretty hard then see if bullet will push down in barrel any at all. If it does I would suspect too loose of fit.

Any idea how many pounds of pressure you may be applying to seat the bullet?

Can you seat it with 1 finger pushing down on the rod?

 

[GM54-120]

CVA advises against this per their owners manual they send with the gun.

Where does it say that because its not what im seeing?
https://cva.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/PARAMOUNT-MANUAL.pdf
This is the only reference i see to it and mags are certainly hotter.

There are several brands of standard and magnum large rifle primers and
all should work acceptably well, but standard primers seem to have a
slight performance edge over magnum primers. The important thing is to
consistently use the same brand and type of primer each time. During final
testing we used Federal® brand large rifle primers

Oops i see it now....Cant imagine what they are thinking since tons of people use mags in LRMP modules with no issues.

Use standard large rifle primers rather than magnum large rifle primers in the Variflame™

 

[Pattray]

I had a similar issue and an issue with the end of the ramrod sticking to the bullet after a few shots. I complained to BPI about excessive blowback and the sticking issue, initially they sent me a replacement head bolt spring, a breachplug and a replacement ramrod, after two or three shots the blowback was back and after four or so shots the new ramrod would stick to the bullet as I loaded it, unseating it from the powder.
I called BPI and had the gun sent in, they had their gunsmith shoot a couple of shots and he claimed that the gun was within spec and stated that 105 grains by weight produces that kind of fouling and they sent it back.
After two or three shots the excessive blowback was back and the sticking ramrod (ramrod replacement #2) was sticking to the bullet after inserting both bullet and ramrod in three inches into the barrel and after seating the bullet the ramrod would pull the bullet all the way up the barrel to about 4 or 5 inches from the top leaving the gun in a dangerous position, on a number of times I had to remove the breach plug and dump both powder and bullet to clear the dam thing.
I made videos of the sticking ramrod and took pictures of the serious fouling of the breach plug and veraflame chamber, they didn’t have a fix for me but sent me another spring and breach-plug and some veraflames due to me not being able to get the crud off a few of them (dipped them for a week) So again with a “hand tightened“ breach plug and new spring I got serious blowback after four or five shots, the firing pin became so jammed up with black soot/gunk and would not work at all.
So I give up and went for a real fix based on what I was reading on this site. I bought the Arrowhead gen 2 replacement plug and ignition system, installed it and it works perfectly, no blowback at all.
As of today I haven’t shot it enough to see if the ramrod will still stick to the bullet, that will come in late muzzleloader season.
After reading some of the posts on here my thinking is that the sticking ramrod might be due to an oversized bore (I’m using the elr 225 gr. bullets ) and I’m not getting full ignition leaving too much fouling.
Edited to add, I have a 40 cal pro paramount and through all of the issues I’m shooting about 1 3/8” groups at 200 yds and less that 3“ groups at 300 yds.

 

[Smalltown]

I had the same problem with the collapsible ramrod end sticking to the Powerbelt ELR 40 cal bullets. It was actually pulling the bullet off seat. I figured it was something CVA didn’t catch before it all went out to the public. I started to email CVA about the problem but did not. I figured the most they would do, is send me a new ramrod that would do the same thing. To alleviate the problem, I stuffed the hole full of loose cotton. Worked like a charm. No more sticking bullets. About the blowback problem ? So far I have not used the 209 breech plug, so I can’t say if the bolt face will press hard enough against the 209 primer rim to create a good gas seal. I can say that with the Vari-flame breech plug the bolt face does press hard enough against the Vari flame adapter to create a good gas seal. Also I don’t have any gas leakage coming back past the plug threads. Any good quality breech plug thread sealer should work fine, but after 30 years, I’m still using White Super Grease, which is the same as blue moly. Remember, if your using a maximum charge of BH 209, then you should be using the Vari flame breech plug for maximum accuracy and to eliminate the problem of the 209 primer sticking under extreme gas pressure.

 

[Pattray]

I had the same problem with the collapsible ramrod end sticking to the Powerbelt ELR 40 cal bullets. It was actually pulling the bullet off seat. I figured it was something CVA didn’t catch before it all went out to the public. I started to email CVA about the problem but did not. I figured the most they would do, is send me a new ramrod that would do the same thing. To alleviate the problem, I stuffed the hole full of loose cotton. Worked like a charm. No more sticking bullets. About the blowback problem ? So far I have not used the 209 breech plug, so I can’t say if the bolt face will press hard enough against the 209 primer rim to create a good gas seal. I can say that with the Vari-flame breech plug the bolt face does press hard enough against the Vari flame adapter to create a good gas seal. Also I don’t have any gas leakage coming back past the plug threads. Any good quality breech plug thread sealer should work fine, but after 30 years, I’m still using White Super Grease, which is the same as blue moly. Remember, if your using a maximum charge of BH 209, then you should be using the Vari flame breech plug for maximum accuracy and to eliminate the problem of the 209 primer sticking under extreme gas pressure.

Any idea what causes the ramrod to stick to the bullet.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Any idea what causes the ramrod to stick to the bullet.

It is probably the angle on the recess in the end of the rod. You might be able to widen the angle on the recess, or it may need to be deeper.

 

[Pattray]

It is probably the angle on the recess in the end of the rod. You might be able to widen the angle on the recess, or it may need to be deeper.

I’ve three of those Collapsible ramrods and they all stick

 

[Smalltown]

The hole in the end of the ramrod is like a straight shank. No taper, same size at the top and bottom. That’s why it sticks to the bullet nose, which is cone shaped. If CVA would start making the holes cone shaped to perfectly match the bullet nose, the ramrod would not be able to stick. For those who have experienced this problem, don’t think that you pushed to hard on the ramrod, or the bore may be to big, or the bullet may be to small. Quality control took a extra long coffee break, and that ramrod slipped write out the door unnoticed. Until CVA fixes this problem, you all may want to try what I did, which is fill the hole with loose cotton, then compact it with anything. A nail head or whatever is laying around, then stuff in some more if it will hold it, and compact it again.

 

[Pattray]

The hole in the end of the ramrod is like a straight shank. No taper, same size at the top and bottom. That’s why it sticks to the bullet nose, which is cone shaped. If CVA would start making the holes cone shaped to perfectly match the bullet nose, the ramrod would not be able to stick. For those who have experienced this problem, don’t think that you pushed to hard on the ramrod, or the bore may be to big, or the bullet may be to small. Quality control took a extra long coffee break, and that ramrod slipped write out the door unnoticed. Until CVA fixes this problem, you all may want to try what I did, which is fill the hole with loose cotton, then compact it with anything. A nail head or whatever is laying around, then stuff in some more if it will hold it, and compact it again.

Thanks, I’ll give it a shot, what I did was buy their heavy field brass three piece ram rod and then only used the two long pieces along with a 40cal spin jag, it works without sticking but is somewhat heavier than the collapsible ramrod.