Brand new smokeless (to me)

[Jared Poteet]

Just bought my first smokeless muzzleloader it's a CVA Apex that was converted by slufoot with a 209 primer. I got it with a Nikon scope, one pound of H4198 and one pound of IMR sr 4759 and a some Hornady 200 sst he was shooting with a plastic sabot and loads 10gr of 4759 the 50gr of 4198 and was getting not quite moa, at 100 said it was more of a 1.75in group. So where do I go from here and what would you guys recommend for this gun, powder load and setup. any information is greatly appreciated for I am trying to read and learn all I can.
Thanks

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from Oklahoma.
There are a number of members here who shoot smokeless.
I'm sure someone will respond with pointers for you.

 

[Mnt monkey]

The apex is a nice rifle,, I'm assuming that's a 45-70 barrel that's been converted, do you know the twist of the barrel? Any more information on that barrel ?they're 4570 barrels are very accurate I bet you can beat that group!! If it's a one in 20 I would start with a 225 fury ,a light blue sabot, and around 54 grains of 4198 straight and work up to 57,,, I shoot imr4759 in a couple of 50 cals, I have no experience duplexing with it, I've always been able to get the consistent accuracy I need with a single instead of a duplex load. I would stay in a light to medium load mindset though. If I had a sizing die I would go straight to some fury 250 black tips ,,you really have a lot of bore riding options and bullet sabot options ,,fury ,parker,Pittman, arrowhead etc!!!

 

[Mnt monkey]

Apex rocks !!I had a 45 Cal 1 and 28 twist actually close friend of mine has the rifle now ,,very solid rifles I wish I had had a 45-70 conversion.

 

[Jared Poteet]

It's got a bergera 26 inch barrel

 

[Jared Poteet]

I'm looking at press and a bullet sizing die now

 

[Jared Poteet]

Any bullet and powder charge recommendations?

 

[Bphunter1974]

Ditch the duplex charge. 55 grains of H4198 is enough and not confusing try the hornady .458 monoflex in 250gr over a wool wad. Can't give you speeds on that but dads shoots lights out with that load. Also make sure to use magnum primers.

 

[dozer_xj]

I have yet to perfect mine but right now Im around 1 MOA using a 275 grain Parker BE, 56-60 grains of H4198 with a veggie wad. You can load the parkers without sizing but they are tight in my gun.

 

[Jared Poteet]

So you guys don't think the duplex load is worth the trouble? I'm not even sure what the advantage is to run in the duplex load. Most I've seen just run the 4198 by itself and get great results

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

So you guys don't think the duplex load is worth the trouble? I'm not even sure what the advantage is to run in the duplex load. Most I've seen just run the 4198 by itself and get great results

If your ignition is working properly, you should not need a Duplex load.

However, some powders do initiate more easily than others. IMR 4198 works well in my 45 caliber smokeless rifles. H4895 also works, but it is a slower powder that does not seem to ignite quite as readily. I am sure others here may have different opinions.

 

[Bphunter1974]

Dad uses h4198 with no problems. In my pacnor 45 caliber savage i use 65 gr H4198 ive never had an ignition problem even in the rare Oklahoma ice storms.

 

[Jared Poteet]

Okay sounds good. I will start messing with that powder alone as soon as I receive the gun. I was also told that it has a Savage smokeless muzzleloader breach plug in there and something about tungsten bushings or titanium sleeves was mentioned but I have absolutely no clue about that. I'm just used to standard muzzleloading breach plugs so if someone could school me on that breach plug that would be great.

 

[Bphunter1974]

I know they make different breach plug liners. I use a hardened screw that i drill myself they last over a hundred shots. Ill have to check it when I'm home to see drill size. But if you don't have a drill press or work in a machine shop as i do. Badger Ridge sells them they're not expensive.

 

[Bphunter1974]

Also Lanes tubes are awesome for carrying your pre weighed powder charges maybe he'll jump in this conversation. If not go to ebay search for lanes tubes. As I'm sure you know powder charges are by weight.

 

[Jared Poteet]

Ya I do I was also going to see if you guys recommend an affordable powder scale.

 

[Bphunter1974]

You can get the digital Hornady G3 for under 60.00 i used mine a lot before i got a charge master powder dispenser.

 

[blackpowder72]

Ditch the duplex load and the sabots. Get a smooth sizing die and some Pittman or Furry bullets she will be a tac driver. I'm not one to give recommendations on powder charges but most guys shoot 55 -65 max gr of 4198 out of the Scout. Personally I shoot 60gr of 4198 out of my Scout and 65gr in my bolt gun .

 

[blackpowder72]

Oh I forgot you might need a wad if you start smooth sizing. I shoot a wool wad in both my guns . Hanks Message board is a great site with a lot of guys on there that have been shooting smokeless for years.

 

[Jmgstr]

Just bought my first smokeless muzzleloader it's a CVA Apex that was converted by slufoot with a 209 primer. I got it with a Nikon scope, one pound of H4198 and one pound of IMR sr 4759 and a some Hornady 200 sst he was shooting with a plastic sabot and loads 10gr of 4759 the 50gr of 4198 and was getting not quite moa, at 100 said it was more of a 1.75in group. So where do I go from here and what would you guys recommend for this gun, powder load and setup. any information is greatly appreciated for I am trying to read and learn all I can.
Thanks

Just curious as to why you're using a sabot in a smokeless build did the builder call for it