Cap lock ignition failure

[James Sparhawk]

You should write a book Lewis, seriously. There isn’t that much information out there. I’m older but only been into BP for a year or so. For modern rifles there is a lot. Muzzleloader information based on modern sidelocks is sparse

Yes, he should write a book. He is the man.

 

[Potato boy]

I read somewhere else that if the hammer doesn't fall square on the nipple, it won't set off the musket caps properly. Not such a huge problem with # 11 caps because of the smaller surface area.

That is very possible but not the case with me. The cap goes bang but the foil falls out and blocks the nipple

 

[snapbang]

If your swabbing between shots do so with the muzzle pointed down. That will help all the crud fall out of the barrel instead of falling down the barrel. I would throw mine over my shoulder and point it down to swab it.

 

[Russ4iam]

When hunting I remove the cleanout screw and use a pick to clear the flash hole. this ensures the flash hole is clear, I have powder under the nipple and there is a little space within the powder charge itself. This is especially important to me if the charge is left in the gun overnight.

 

[LR_Smoker]

This is not the first time I encountered this, but it has been awhile. I get failed ignition, cap goes of, nothing else. Also the caps with a clean base are the failed ones, see photo. Nipple was removed and found to be clear. It’s like part of the cap falls into the nipple and blocks it when firing, see picks. CCI musket caps. The shiny ones are failed ignition, the black ones fired.

Apart from having every thing clean there are two issues that I have encountered that produced similar results to yours. The first time was with #11 nipple that became swaged over time and prevented the cap from coming tight against the top of the nipple so the first and sometimes 2nd strike was just to seat it tight then it would go off. The other issue that I had was that the hammer was not only not square to the top of the nipple but it was also off the center line so that when the cock fell a good part of the force was lost in friction on one side of the cap. Hope this helps.

 

[John carter]

When ready to load your rifle ... I cleaned rifle with lighter fluid to remove all oils. let the fluid evaporate. put a patch on jag and run to end of barrel. cap gun and fire. pull patch and look at it. If a clear nipple, the patch will be burnt. if okay, load the rifle.... When just beat hand on side of rifle to get powder into nipple bore hole. finish loading. before capping.... Pull nipple off. add a few grains of powder intO nipple opening. screw nipple back into place. cap and use. when I shot matches with a m loader the best shooters always did this. there were no misfires.

 

[Squint]

This is not the first time I encountered this, but it has been awhile. I get failed ignition, cap goes of, nothing else. Also the caps with a clean base are the failed ones, see photo. Nipple was removed and found to be clear. It’s like part of the cap falls into the nipple and blocks it when firing, see picks. CCI musket caps. The shiny ones are failed ignition, the black ones fired.

This early spring I bought a new precussion 50 caliber traditions Deer Hunter with the idea of using nothing but 777 triple F in it because of the availability of black in my area, with the understanding that I could work up a decent load and have decent accuracy. Before I ever started with that, research said that a nominal nipple hole diameter is about a 70 wire bit or, .028. Research said I might have some ignition failures, so I went to a .030 wire bit which is a number 68. This worked fairly well, but while target shooting I had a couple of primer failures but that's all. Then I took it home and drilled it to a number 67 wire bit, which is about a .0315 diameter hole. Originally I was using Magnum primers, but they would stick in the hammer, so I went to a regular primer and they stayed on the nipple after firing. Last Sunday I went to a shoot and three times had to use a second cap as the first one fired but only the primer. Upon coming home I went to a number 66 wire bit which is a .033 diameter hole. I just went out and shot some triple F with no problems, the hammer doesn't rebound. About the most powder I use is 55 grains, almost always with a PB, but I did have some mini balls along and I tried them and they were just fine, but I don't like the recoil AS 777 is hotter than black. Perhaps if you loaded heavy enough it could cause hammer rebound, I don't know but this worked satisfactory for me using both black and triple F to see if anything created a problem. If I was loading maximum of 70 Grains or more, I would probably have drilled it one step at a time. I had purchased two new stainless steel nipples so in case I over drilled one it wouldn't be too bad a problem.
Squint

 

[Potato boy]

Apart from having every thing clean there are two issues that I have encountered that produced similar results to yours. The first time was with #11 nipple that became swaged over time and prevented the cap from coming tight against the top of the nipple so the first and sometimes 2nd strike was just to seat it tight then it would go off. The other issue that I had was that the hammer was not only not square to the top of the nipple but it was also off the center line so that when the cock fell a good part of the force was lost in friction on one side of the cap. Hope this helps.

different movie at my bench. The cap goes off but no powder ignition, every time that happens the foil is detached from the cap. See pics, the clean ones are the misfire(s)
[/QUOTE]

 

[Okie Hog]

Methinks you have CCI Reenactor musket caps: Look at the can, if it says Reenactor that's your problem. Reenactor caps have a much lighter primer charge: They are designed to remain in one piece when fired. Reenactor caps are not designed for use with powder charges.

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...lies/powder-primers/cci-musket-caps/p/1219375

 

[Potato boy]

This is what I have

 

[Matthew323]

You need the full power musket caps. I bet once you switch most of your issues will disappear. Get the right caps, and follow everyone's good advice above, and you should be set.

 

[Potato boy]

You need the full power musket caps. I bet once you switch most of your issues will disappear. Get the right caps, and follow everyone's good advice above, and you should be set.

I have the CCI multiple use, I’m told they are hotter than the reenactor caps. The only other brand I can source in Canada is Shutzen. Are they a hotter cap, I’m not sure what you mean by full power caps?

 

[HC]

So, Multiple use are not full power?

 

[Potato boy]

So, Multiple use are not full power?

IDK

 

[Okie Hog]

"Full power" musket caps was what was available for over 150 years. Then some reenactor who refused to wear glasses got the fragment of a cap in the eye and sued. In response CCI made the weak Reenactor caps. The Multi Use caps are not the equal of the original CCI caps.

The flame channel may be blocked. In order to clear the flame channel it's necessary to remove the nipple or "cleanout screw" and run a bristled pipe cleaner through the flame channel. Don't do that yet.

Is there a "cleanout screw" near the nipple?

Let me know who made your rifle: i'll look at the availability of a #11 nipple

 

[Potato boy]

"Full power" musket caps was what was available for over 150 years. Then some reenactor who refused to wear glasses got the fragment of a cap in the eye and sued. In response CCI made the weak Reenactor caps. The Multi Use caps are not the equal of the original CCI caps.

The flame channel may be blocked. In order to clear the flame channel it's necessary to remove the nipple or "cleanout screw" and run a bristled pipe cleaner through the flame channel. Don't do that yet.

Is there a "cleanout screw" near the nipple?

Let me know who made your rifle: i'll look at the availability of a #11 nipple

It’s an occasional problem, it happens sporadically, I had 8 missfire in a days shooting, probably 40-50 shots were taken that day. Most of them happened mid day. I think I will try Lewi’s suggestion of popping a cap after every swab with the barrel pointing down. I have #11 nipples for it, I switched to musket caps for increased reliability, lol

 

[Idaholewis]

It’s an occasional problem, it happens sporadically, I had 8 missfire in a days shooting, probably 40-50 shots were taken that day. Most of them happened mid day. I think I will try Lewi’s suggestion of popping a cap after every swab with the barrel pointing down. I have #11 nipples for it, I switched to musket caps for increased reliability, lol

If you follow the Regimen i spoke of, I am confident your mis/fail to fires will go away

I read back through and I don’t see your Powder mentioned, What Powder are you using?

 

[Potato boy]

If you follow the Regimen i spoke of, I am confident your mis/fail to fires will go away

I read back through and I don’t see your Powder mentioned, What Powder are you using?

I was using Goex 3f, it’s the only true BP I can get besides 1.5f Swiss that I save for my 45/70. Sucks to love guns and be in Canad, lol

 

[Idaholewis]

The reason i ask, is some nipples such as Treso/Ampco’s have a tiny .028 Flash Hole Which is to Small to Reliably ignite Substitute powders such as Pyrodex and Triple Seven. The Substitute Powders need a Little larger Flash Hole, like .031-.032, I have a few Brand New TC Hotshot Nipples here that i have measured with PRECISION Pin Gauges, their Flash Hole measures .035 Brand new out of the Package. That is a VERY LARGE Flash Hole, and where most Guy’s Throw them away! TC obviously knew the Substitute Powders need More, and a Hotter Spark to Reliably ignite, Their answer was The TC “Hotshot” Nipple. At .035 you don’t have much wiggle Room for Wear, Your Gun will Start going to Halfcock, This starts to get Dangerous, Think of where your Eye is when you pull the Trigger. Nipple manufacturers use those Small Flash Holes for a Reason You NEVER EVER want to Bore them out, unless you are setup with Correct .031-.032 Wire Bits, and Understand the Importance, and Dangers.

If using Real Blackpowder? The tiny .028 Flash Holes of the Treso/Ampco nipples are Ideal Real Blackpowder requires the Tiniest of Spark

 

[Idaholewis]

I was using Goex 3f, it’s the only true BP I can get besides 1.5f Swiss that I save for my 45/70. Sucks to love guns and be in Canad, lol

Disregard my last post, We were posting at the same time

With Real Blackpowder, Your Flash Hole size is Fine At .035 i would Replace with a New one.

Follow the Regimen I mentioned Earlier (After Swabbing, Pop a Cap through With the Rifle pointed Straight Down, Now Dump your Powder Charge in, TAP TAP TAP GOOD on the Side of Stock To settle the Powder under the Nipple, it will go BANG Everytime!

Post back when you get a Chance to Shoot again, Good Luck, and Good Shootin my Friend