Cheddite 209 Primers and the Mag-Spark Adapter

[Bob Turkeytrack]

I have enough percussion caps to keep me going for a while, but I like to have options. I bought a 1/4-28 Mag-Spark adapter for 209 primers, and thought I might try it out on some of my sidelock rifles. However, primers are almost as hard to find as percussion caps right now. I did find a reputable dealer (Midsouth) who has Cheddite 209 primers for what I thought was a reasonable price in today's dollars. I have heard of that brand, but have never tried any of their products. Considering HazMat costs, it isn't really worth it to get less than a pack of 1,000. However, I don't want to get stuck with 1,000 primers that don't work well.

So, the question is, Are Cheddite primers a good choice for sidelock black powder rifles using the Mag-Spark device?

All responses are welcome, but I'm hoping to hear from folks who have actual experience with this combination. I do expect to be using primarily real black powder, although I have one un-opened container of Black MZ which I might try eventually, as well as some very old Pyrodex, which I should probably dump in the garden.

Looking forward to your comments!

Bob Turkeytrack

 

[MeatMachine]

With black powder, pyrodex and black mz the caps you have now are just fine. If you want to use bh209 then the 209 primers would be better. I used chedite 209 primers in a inline over twenty years ago and if I remember correctly they have a larger diameter than American 209 primers so if you decide to buy the magspark adapter I would call them and ask if cheddite primers work in their system.

 

[white eagle]

I was in the same boat as you as far as primers go
however my application is for inline and blackhorn 209 so not the same as your need I do however like to say I have had no misfires or fail to fire
so I would say as long as the fit you are good to go

 

[Bob Turkeytrack]

Thanks to both who responded. That information about the potentially larger diameter of Cheddite 209 primers is exactly the type of thing I needed to hear. I didn’t even think of that!

I’ve never had a problem with percussion caps and black powder. I’m just curious, and wanted to experiment some with primers.

I will contact the folks at Mag-Spark, as suggested, and ask their opinion regarding different primer brands.

Much obliged!

Bob Turkeytrack

 

[Bob Turkeytrack]

UPDATE: I emailed Warren Custom Outdoor, makers of the Mag-Spark adapter, to ask about the Cheddite 209 primers. They responded (on a Sunday morning!) with "Yes, the Cheddite brand does work." So, we have it from the source.

In researching 209 primers, I found this interesting chart:


Note the diameters shown in the right-hand column. The imported primers (Fiocchi, Cheddite, and Rio) are indeed larger than most of the domestic (CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester) primers, as suggested by @MeatMachine . Good call, buddy! The Rio primers are largest of all, but I only asked the Mag-Spark folks specifically about Cheddite.

I know there are other factors to consider in 209 primer selection, such as muzzleloader-specific primers versus general purpose shotgun primers, but these days the selection is limited. I think Cabelas has some of the Winchester Triple 7 primers in stock. I believe we have a Cabelas within driving distance, and I know we have a Bass Pro Shop, but I'm not a frequent customer at either of those "big-box" outfits and will need to make some calls to find out if these elusive primers are available locally, or if I'll have to order online and pay the HazMat and shipping fees.

Now, if I could only find some Federal magnum large rifle primers for my BP cartridge rifles, I'd be in good shape!

Thanks to all who contributed comments.

Bob Turkeytrack

 

[Bob Turkeytrack]

One more update:

I pulled out the Mag-Spark device and read through the printed materials that came with it. They recommended using Federal, CCI, or Remington 209 “shotshell” primers, but advised that Winchester primers might stick, i.e. the primer might be hard to extract from the Mag-Spark after firing. They did not mention any of the imported primers at all. We note on the chart in post #5 that Winchester 209’s have the largest diameter of the USA made primers, but not by much.

In addition, I tried measuring the inside diameter of the primer pocket of my Mag-Spark using the smooth ends of drill bits as plug gauges. I found that a size “D” letter-gauge bit (0.246”) was a near-perfect slip fit, so theoretically any of the primers shown in the chart should fit, although the Rio 209’s, at 0.245”, would be mighty close. A lot would depend on how much they expand after firing.

I’ll just have to try whatever primers I can find, I guess.

Bob Turkeytrack

 

[MeatMachine]

When you find your primers let us know how it works.

 

[eekjellander]

I have enough percussion caps to keep me going for a while, but I like to have options. I bought a 1/4-28 Mag-Spark adapter for 209 primers, and thought I might try it out on some of my sidelock rifles. However, primers are almost as hard to find as percussion caps right now. I did find a reputable dealer (Midsouth) who has Cheddite 209 primers for what I thought was a reasonable price in today's dollars. I have heard of that brand, but have never tried any of their products. Considering HazMat costs, it isn't really worth it to get less than a pack of 1,000. However, I don't want to get stuck with 1,000 primers that don't work well.

So, the question is, Are Cheddite primers a good choice for sidelock black powder rifles using the Mag-Spark device?

All responses are welcome, but I'm hoping to hear from folks who have actual experience with this combination. I do expect to be using primarily real black powder, although I have one un-opened container of Black MZ which I might try eventually, as well as some very old Pyrodex, which I should probably dump in the garden.

Looking forward to your comments!

Bob Turkeytrack

If it goes in a Mag Spark it is , never used that 209 but everything else I've used in my sidelocks including BP/ BH 209 enables me to shoot any thing /anytime !/Ed

 

[ElDiablo]

I’ve only used Fed209As in my MagSpark. And they are tough to extract from time to time when you get a little fouling built up.

For what it’s worth, I broke mine out just now and test fit a couple of brands to give you some more info. Bottom line is - Fiocchis and Cheddites do not work in mine. Winchesters mostly fit. Federals work fine. Note that the tolerances may vary in the MagSparks and they do vary slightly among primers (even in the same lot). I tried ten of each brand (all from a single lot of each brand). See pics below.

Fiocchi 616s: none fit
Cheddite CX2000: 50% did not fit, 20 % went in half way, 30% fit
Winchester W209: 70% fit, 30% went in only 3/4 of the way
Federal 209: all fit

“Fit” is bottomed out in the MagSpark.

Based on these dry fit tests, I’m guessing some of the Winchesters and most of the Cheddites would be tough to extract (if you could get them in in the first place).

 

[Bob Turkeytrack]

I’ve only used Fed209As in my MagSpark. And they are tough to extract from time to time when you get a little fouling built up.

For what it’s worth, I broke mine out just now and test fit a couple of brands to give you some more info. Bottom line is - Fiocchis and Cheddites do not work in mine. Winchesters mostly fit. Federals work fine. Note that the tolerances may vary in the MagSparks and they do vary slightly among primers (even in the same lot). I tried ten of each brand (all from a single lot of each brand). See pics below.

Fiocchi 616s: none fit
Cheddite CX2000: 50% did not fit, 20 % went in half way, 30% fit
Winchester W209: 70% fit, 30% went in only 3/4 of the way
Federal 209: all fit

“Fit” is bottomed out in the MagSpark.

Based on these dry fit tests, I’m guessing some of the Winchesters and most of the Cheddites would be tough to extract (if you could get them in in the first place).

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@ElDiablo

Thank you! This is exactly the type of information I was seeking. If I could walk into a store and buy a few different brands of primers to try, it would be no great loss, but with the shortages and HazMat fees, I didn't want to get stuck with 1,000 primers I could not use or return. This is good information!

I did find that Midway had a few boxes of 100 Federal 209MZ primers, and I ordered two boxes of them to try (along with some other odds and ends). I'll report back after I've had a chance to try them.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post all of that!

Bob Turkeytrack

 

[ElDiablo]

Happy to help. I suspect those will work for you. Let us know after you try them!

 

[exarcher]

I’ve only used Fed209As in my MagSpark. And they are tough to extract from time to time when you get a little fouling built up.

For what it’s worth, I broke mine out just now and test fit a couple of brands to give you some more info. Bottom line is - Fiocchis and Cheddites do not work in mine. Winchesters mostly fit. Federals work fine. Note that the tolerances may vary in the MagSparks and they do vary slightly among primers (even in the same lot). I tried ten of each brand (all from a single lot of each brand). See pics below.

Fiocchi 616s: none fit
Cheddite CX2000: 50% did not fit, 20 % went in half way, 30% fit
Winchester W209: 70% fit, 30% went in only 3/4 of the way
Federal 209: all fit

“Fit” is bottomed out in the MagSpark.

Based on these dry fit tests, I’m guessing some of the Winchesters and most of the Cheddites would be tough to extract (if you could get them in in the first place).

View attachment 32615

View attachment 32613
View attachment 32614
View attachment 32612

Thanks!! saved me some trouble,, i was going to order some "fiocchi's" i'm sure they are good primers, but if they don't fit,, that point is mute!! saved me bout $150!!

 

[exarcher]

@ElDiablo

Thank you! This is exactly the type of information I was seeking. If I could walk into a store and buy a few different brands of primers to try, it would be no great loss, but with the shortages and HazMat fees, I didn't want to get stuck with 1,000 primers I could not use or return. This is good information!

I did find that Midway had a few boxes of 100 Federal 209MZ primers, and I ordered two boxes of them to try (along with some other odds and ends). I'll report back after I've had a chance to try them.

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to post all of that!

Bob Turkeytrack

you guys need to start searching with (ammoseek). there are several different ones available right now... if its listed for sale on line, this little tool will find it. right now federal, winchester shotgun, winchester (triple 7) mz & 2 that won't fit (cheddite/fiochhi).

 

[earlthegoat2]

you guys need to start searching with (ammoseek). there are several different ones available right now... if its listed for sale on line, this little tool will find it. right now federal, winchester shotgun, winchester (triple 7) mz & 2 that won't fit (cheddite/fiochhi).

Ammoseek is a great resource but be aware that it doesn’t find everything. Even from the big name retailers.

For instance, Grafs has never shown up for me on Ammoseek yet I have seen products available there repeatedly and even bought some after an Ammoseek search.

Like I said, it is a great tool but if you are trying to find something and you don’t get any results from Ammoseek, keep doing a little more legwork.

 

[eekjellander]

UPDATE: I emailed Warren Custom Outdoor, makers of the Mag-Spark adapter, to ask about the Cheddite 209 primers. They responded (on a Sunday morning!) with "Yes, the Cheddite brand does work." So, we have it from the source.

In researching 209 primers, I found this interesting chart:

View attachment 32549
Note the diameters shown in the right-hand column. The imported primers (Fiocchi, Cheddite, and Rio) are indeed larger than most of the domestic (CCI, Federal, Remington, and Winchester) primers, as suggested by @MeatMachine . Good call, buddy! The Rio primers are largest of all, but I only asked the Mag-Spark folks specifically about Cheddite.

I know there are other factors to consider in 209 primer selection, such as muzzleloader-specific primers versus general purpose shotgun primers, but these days the selection is limited. I think Cabelas has some of the Winchester Triple 7 primers in stock. I believe we have a Cabelas within driving distance, and I know we have a Bass Pro Shop, but I'm not a frequent customer at either of those "big-box" outfits and will need to make some calls to find out if these elusive primers are available locally, or if I'll have to order online and pay the HazMat and shipping fees.

Now, if I could only find some Federal magnum large rifle primers for my BP cartridge rifles, I'd be in good shape!

Thanks to all who contributed comments.

Bob Turkeytrack

And Warren is a nice guy to deal with too !/ ED