CHP 3 Practical shooting suggestions.

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

RBinAR

Well-Known Member
*
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
171
Reaction score
3
It?s time to finish the theory of smokeless muzzle loading and move on to what can be expected in practice. It is apparent that a 50 caliber smokeless rifle (muzzle or breech loader) is a very powerful weapon. It should be no surprise that some of the useful loads shoot to considerable energy.

For our purposes let us consider the loads by bullet weight. For shooting bullets with sabots (the only method in 50 caliber) there are two weights of bullets most commonly shot, the 250 and 300 grain models. We will spend most of our time with these weights but will discuss others as well.

For shooting a 250 or 300 grain bullets one should never dismiss the possibility a factory suggestion would work. For shooters wanting no more than 2300fps with a 250 grain bullet or 2200fps with a 300 grain bullet Xmr-5744, VV N110, and Imr-SR4759 will reach these speeds at a good pressure and low recoil level. For those who want faster bullets speeds they can be had as well and the following will provide a good deal of helpful advice on how to get there.

Shooting a 250 grain bullet past 2350fps (to a maximum of about 2700fps) requires a slower burning powder than the factory three listed above. Most powders are too slow burning to reach the required speed and pressure within a reasonable load level but there are a few exceptions. Those include VV N120, H-4198, Alliant Reloader #7, and Imr-4198. If you wish to shoot 4198 I highly suggest the Hodgdon H-4198 product because it is much easier to ignite than Imr-4198 and thus less likely to have problems with loose fitting sabots.

To get the most out of a slower powder you need the proper sabot. I?ve found the MMP HPH-12 or the Harvester short black high pressure sabots will handle the task. Once you have the sabot then it?s a matter of choosing a proper load level

Each powder will likely show accuracy at different speeds. I recommend a spread of 4 or 5 grains of each different powder to allow some adjustment for accuracy. When shooting N120 the load level will be slightly less than the other three mentioned powders. For a 250 grain bullet N120 will likely be most accurate from 62 to 67 grains. The other three powders will shoot more charge weight.

For H-4198 and Reloader #7 best loads generally run from 68 to 73 grains for a 250 grain bullet. The level you choose should be tempered by the fact that crossing the 70 grain load level means you will be taking the recoil from a load going 2600fps with a 250 grain bullet. That?s about the same as a 375 H&H. The British 3/8? is noted for taking game as big as elephant so you have an idea what to expect.
h4198x74-copy.jpg

As you can see from this load shot with 74 grains of H-4198 under a 250 grain SST 75 or more grains of powder would still be in the proper pressure window but my shoulder can?t take it.

I?m not giving data for Imr-4198 not because it won?t work or people don?t shot it (a good many do) but I think H-4198 is a better suggestion. If you must, Imr-4198 will shoot slightly faster than its? H brother so use about 1.5 or 2 grains less for the same result.

All four of these powders will work excellently with 300 grain bullets as well. The only thing that has to be changed is the suggested charge levels. For N120 best results are had between 58 and 63 grains. For H-4198 and Reloader #7 a good suggestion would be between 65 and 69 grains. The same 2 grains less than H-4198 is a good idea for Imr-4198.

I have listed only a few powders for 250 grain bullets. Some of you may be aware that others (10X, N130, Xmr-2015, and H322 to name a few) will work. However to have the proper pressure you?d have to shoot even more powder than I?ve suggested so far. More than 75 grains of powder seems like an excess to me and the recoil is larger as well. Still you will see these powders used in the cases where a very low pressure load is a virtue.

As a final part of this chapter I think it?s important to note shooting a bullet heavier than 300 grains is not only possible it is easier in all respects than shooting very light weight bullets. The reason should be obvious: 50 caliber smokeless rifles are designed to shoot heavy (in comparison to smaller caliber rifles) bullets. All load data for a 50 caliber rifle starts with 300 or 350 grain bullets that only gets heavier from there. So I have a few suggestions for shooting really heavy bullets. These loads could be used on heavy or dangerous game.

A 350 grain bullet can be shot at a very great speed with a moderate pressure from a 50 caliber smokeless barrel. I suggest H322 as a good powder for this purpose. 74 to 78 grains works very well except if your shoulder is sore. At about 2300fps this load offers power at only a moderate pain investment. However the same powder could be used up to 2500fps. I won?t shoot it but perhaps someone would volunteer.

You could go to an even heavier bullet. The following image is a 400 grain Speer flat nosed bullet in an orange MMP sabot shot ahead of 75 grains of Imr-3031.
imr3031x75-400.GIF


The load is still on the low edge of our pressure window despite moving the 400 grain bullet to 2080fps. Bringing the load to maximum pressure would surly make 2250fps and pass 4200fpe. That would cure about anything beset on gnawing, tromping, or scratching a hunter into a bad day.
400gtrg-copy.jpg

Accuracy can be very good when shooting heavy bullets as this target shows. The bullet was a 400 grain Speer FN with 75 grains of Imr-3031 as a load.

I have not covered every load possibility by a long shot but I hope this gives a picture of the great number of possibilities available.
 
Rick...on the to graph...What does T1, T2, and T3 represent? I'm sure one of the graphs is a pressure trace of 74 grains of H-4198 under a 250 grain SST.
 
big bullets fast!

Nice to see your write up, very informative.

I have been pushing the envalope with a smokeless gun trying to get the ultimate muzzle hammer!

I am shooting a custom SMI 35" 1-26 twst .50 cal 1 1/8 straight barrel

I am shooting my own bullet a 375 gr. rebated boatail bullet. Wildcat ML

So far the best load has been 75 gr. IMR 3031 pushing the bullet at
approx. 2200 fps.

I have shot it to 350 yards and its still shooting sub MOA ! I am testing in the next week out to 500 yrds to see what it will do!

The recoil is not bad but keep in mind the gun is 15 lbs.+

any feed back would be great on load development I am doing this on my own and getting to top pressure is hard to determine
 
big6x6 said:
Rick...on the to graph...What does T1, T2, and T3 represent? I'm sure one of the graphs is a pressure trace of 74 grains of H-4198 under a 250 grain SST.

T1, 2 and 3 stand for traces 1, 2, and 3 or shots 1, 2, and 3 if you prefer. All the shots were 74 grains of H-4198 which goes to show you there is a small difference possible between shots. Pressure differences of 5 to 8% are not uncommon but much more than that indicates a setup problem or barrel heating to the point of sabot disruption.
 
Re: big bullets fast!

wildworks said:
Nice to see your write up, very informative.

I have been pushing the envalope with a smokeless gun trying to get the ultimate muzzle hammer!

I am shooting a custom SMI 35" 1-26 twst .50 cal 1 1/8 straight barrel

I am shooting my own bullet a 375 gr. rebated boatail bullet. Wildcat ML

So far the best load has been 75 gr. IMR 3031 pushing the bullet at
approx. 2200 fps.

I have shot it to 350 yards and its still shooting sub MOA ! I am testing in the next week out to 500 yrds to see what it will do!

The recoil is not bad but keep in mind the gun is 15 lbs.+

any feed back would be great on load development I am doing this on my own and getting to top pressure is hard to determine

With that long a barrel and that heavy a rifle the sky is the limit.

However that depends on the pressure limit of the rifle. The pressure limit I use applies to the 10ML but I'm not at all sure of the SMI because I've never owned one.

The SMI seems to need low pressures to preserve breech plug life but even that is a guess. I would try to establish a maximum load pressure and then work from there.

I can tell you 75 grains of imr-3031 will not break 30,000psi with a 375 grain bullet. you are somewhere in the high 20,000psi range.

If it was possible to shoot to the 10ML limit of 40,000psi I'd hate to guess the load speed but it woulld be fast, as the bullet energy should near 4800fpe on the conservative side because I'm doing my estimate based on the Savage barrel which is a foot shorter.
 
Great info RB. So far I've only used standard loads. But that really makes my wheels start turning :D
 
got it

RBinAR

thanks for the info! the pressure game is a very fickle thing each gun handles it different!

you figure that the load that i am shooting is in the high 20,000 ?



with imr 3031.

with your software can you figure a potential max speed with safe pressure?

I will have to consult with ron on the max pressure for smi

thanks
 
Re: got it

wildworks said:
RBinAR
with imr 3031.

with your software can you figure a potential max speed with safe pressure?

I will have to consult with ron on the max pressure for smi

thanks
I generally try to avoid pressure estimations with software though some (like the Neco product) do a very good job.

When I can I measure the pressure. That's why I say 75 grains is less than 30,000psi pressure, I measured 75 grains of Imr-3031 and it fails to break that level shooting a 412 grain bullet (you have to count the weight of the sabot).

Since it won't get over 30,000psi with a 412 grain bullet it must be less (in the 20skpsi) than that with a 375 grain bullet (even if you add 12 grains for a sabot).

When I can't measure I try to use the measurements of a reliable source. One such source is the Hodgdon data for the 50-110. The 50-110 is limited to 28,000psi maximum pressure. The Hodgdon load data says that 65 grains of Imr-3031 shoots this pressure with a 450 grain bullet.

I can't make an exact relation but I can see it's possible to shoot a lot more than 65 grains of 3031 with a 375 grain bullet and still have the same pressure.

One last thing that I don't have time to fully explain but is a fact. A muzzle loader will shoot to less pressure than a cased round in most any circumstance. So 65 grains of 3031 under a 450 grain bullet will shoot to less than the 50-110s maximum of 28,000psi.
 
SMI/

I talked to SMI today and they say that the max pressure is 40,000psi

and that they have tested to that and have found that the sabot fails at that same pressure peak.

so it seems there is some room here for more speed with the 375?? at 40,000 psi there maybe a possible 2400 fps!! i will have to watch the crony and the primers and see where it will go.
 
Wildworks,
Since Varget is considered by many to be interchangable with 3130, and it is an Extreme powder, you might want to see how it does. It might be less temp sensitive at the lower pressures your are shooting. I have generally gotten more accurate loads and lower std devs with Varget.
 
SW said:
Wildworks,
Since Varget is considered by many to be interchangable with 3130, and it is an Extreme powder, you might want to see how it does. It might be less temp sensitive at the lower pressures your are shooting. I have generally gotten more accurate loads and lower std devs with Varget.

Steve is that Varget or Benchmark?
 
powder

Thanks for the info on the varget

The low pressure is not where i want to be i want to get it up where it should be in the 38.000 + psi area. I want to make that 375 Wildcat sing!!!! 2400 fps is the goal and man what a hammer that would be

only 16.7 MOA (approx) drop at 500 yards with my b mil dot scope that gives me out to almost 465yrds with the hash marks!

I have to get to work i have an Iowa ML tag in my pocket and there are some great deer this year!
 
RBinAR said:
SW said:
Wildworks,
Since Varget is considered by many to be interchangable with 3130, and it is an Extreme powder, you might want to see how it does. It might be less temp sensitive at the lower pressures your are shooting. I have generally gotten more accurate loads and lower std devs with Varget.

Steve is that Varget or Benchmark?
For years , shortly after Varget came out, the rule-of thumb, was that Varget could be substituted for 3031 in loading books. It isn't quite as close as Benchmark is(which wasn't out then). So Benchmark is closer - much closer. I know, though I don't think they are labeled as such, that there is a Benchmark 1 and Benchmark 2. I believe our current containers labeled Benchmark are actually Benchmark 2. Maybe someone can shed light on this though I doubt it is relative as Benchmark 1 isn't available now or at least that is my understanding.
 
SW said:
RBinAR said:
SW said:
For years , shortly after Varget came out, the rule-of thumb, was that Varget could be substituted for 3031 in loading books. It isn't quite as close as Benchmark is(which wasn't out then). So Benchmark is closer - much closer. I know, though I don't think they are labeled as such, that there is a Benchmark 1 and Benchmark 2. I believe our current containers labeled Benchmark are actually Benchmark 2. Maybe someone can shed light on this though I doubt it is relative as Benchmark 1 isn't available now or at least that is my understanding.

I don't know about the particulars so someone would have to help to get it right, however I do know Benchmark is almost a perfect replacement for 3031 and it is more consistent as well as being easier to ignite.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top