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Clean between shots sabot?

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Buttonbuck

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Nov 5, 2016
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Wondering?? I was sighting in my orange disc converted Bare 209. 60 grains 2f, green Hornady sabot 44 cal XTP, 60 grains 777 2f after 3/5 shots got fliers stared with clean bore cold rifle dead on first shot, 2nd off by 2” wiped with wet patch 3rd dead on. All at 100 yards Is this plastic fouling causing it? Or just dirty 777? I know the switch to buckhorn Comment is coming.
 

Steelheader323

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Dec 10, 2015
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I would say your rifle likes a clean bore. Since you are using t7 I would just try and keep the bore clean for each shot and call that your group. I am Not sure your rifle can shoot bh209 so I can’t recommend that.

As for it possibly being plastic fouling..I would say it’s more so the dirty T7 build up. I can shoot my modern Inlines using bh209 with saboted bullets and get 15-20 shots off before I start to notice any issues and even then it’s not off by much. So I’d say the plastic fouling doesn’t start to become an issue until a lot of shots are takin
 

sabotloader

Keep Shooting Muzzleloaders - They are a Blast
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Shooting T7 with a 209 primer will/can lead to 'crud ring' build up near the bottom of the barrel - really near the top of the powder column especially if you use real oil (petroleum) in the bore. The heat generated by the primer and ignition of the powder fries the oil residue in the bore. Try to use synthetic oils in the bore, although it will take awhile to clear the old products out of the bore and the pore. And even then this will not totally cure the ring but it will reduce it. This 'crud ring' build up really increases the need to damp swab the barrel between shots.

You can get rid of this ring by switching to BH-209 Powder.

Modern sabots are not susceptible to much plastic fouling.
 

LarryBud

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I think it's the T7 Crud ring. I'll shoot T7 with sabots but accept the fact that it will be a wet patch / dry patch swab between shots. It's just part of using T7.
 

mnoland30

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Dec 1, 2015
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I could never figure out what the "crud ring" everyone talks about was when I was using my Kahnke rifle with #11 caps. Once I bought "modern" muzzleloaders, I found out. The crud ring is caused by the 209 primers. I also never had a misfire with my old rifle, unlike the new ones.

Sabotloader, I'll try using synthetic oil. Do you buy a special brand, or use automotive oil?
 

Buttonbuck

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Nov 5, 2016
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Lots of patches it is until I burn through this pound of 777 I’ve tried the 3 f as well no bueno for groups
 

sabotloader

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I think it's the T7 Crud ring. I'll shoot T7 with sabots but accept the fact that it will be a wet patch / dry patch swab between shots. It's just part of using T7.
Larry often the dry patch is not necessary especially while hunting while hunting IF you only moisten your wiping patch and attack the ring correctly with a few short strokes to get through.

At the range I use a prepared blue Windex patch and never run a dry patch. Heck I even use the same Windex patch over and over until it drys out.



But.... if you use a wet patch be sure and re-wipe with a dry patch.
 
Last edited:

sabotloader

Keep Shooting Muzzleloaders - They are a Blast
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I could never figure out what the "crud ring" everyone talks about was when I was using my Kahnke rifle with #11 caps. Once I bought "modern" muzzleloaders, I found out. The crud ring is caused by the 209 primers. I also never had a misfire with my old rifle, unlike the new ones.

Sabotloader, I'll try using synthetic oil. Do you buy a special brand, or use automotive oil?
I use Montana Xtreme Bore Conditioner, but there certainly are others on the market. Slip 2000 makes one also but it is a heavier oil. Simply changing to synthetic is not a magical cure - it take awhile for it to shoot out the products you have been using and the synthetic oil to condition the bore. You will still get the 'ring' but it is a much slower build. Normally I can shoot 4-5 times before patching.

To get through the jug of T7 try making and using some Windex patches. I shoot T7 about 90% of the time because I hate the price of BH for 10 ounces. I also shoot 8-10 lbs of powder in a year so the cost adds up. BH is a great powder and does cure a lot of the T7 headaches.
 

toytruck

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May 22, 2005
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2,610
Lucas gun oil is all I use on all muzzleloaders and center fire gun's.
Great protection and doesn't freeze.
 
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