I am new to this forum and this is my first post. I have been shooting muzzleloaders for around 25 years and have taken some elk over the years. I currently have a renegade 54. Cal. I was fortunate to draw a moose license this year so I was thinking of upgrading my gun. Considering Colorado does not allow scoped rifles for muzzle loading, so I’m looking for recommendations for a new gun and appropriate bullets for moose/elk. I liked the new Paramount Pro, Accura lx-r or the Rememington, but can I utilize the extra distances it shoots with no scope. Looking for help. Thanks
Colorado moose
- Thread starter Mulesonly
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Rice can make you a nice fast twist barrel for that Renny. Something like a 50cal 1-24 will shoot big conicals as well as any inline in no scope hunts.
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I would stick with the Renegade. you already know how the gun, and it has already proven its ability to take large game.
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Killed a bull moose here in Colorado with my .54 Renegade and 105 grains of 2f behind a 430 gr. maxiball in '96. One shot through the chest at 85 paces. I would not stress on not having a scope, because due to the nature of the beast, you can get pretty close. Most moose kills I know of have been inside of 35 yards, mostly with center fire rifles that were not magnums (.270 and 30-06). A friend took a bull last season with a TC Impact, 100 grains T7, and a 325 gr. FPB at 30 yards. In general, any heavy conical will work well. I prefer a fiber optic front sight and ghost ring rear for irons here in Colorado.
Congratulations on drawing the tag, what unit is it in? How long did you have to wait? I would definitely use it as an excuse to get a new rifle. Just remember the caliber restrictions, .50 or bigger for moose, .54 or bigger if using a roundball. Also keep in mind that most inlines do not come with iron sights these days.
I just drew a cow moose tag in Unit 14 for regular rifle season, will use my 450 Marlin Guide Gun due to it's light weight (I'm getting old) this time, or who knows, maybe my Impact since it's light,too?
Congratulations on drawing the tag, what unit is it in? How long did you have to wait? I would definitely use it as an excuse to get a new rifle. Just remember the caliber restrictions, .50 or bigger for moose, .54 or bigger if using a roundball. Also keep in mind that most inlines do not come with iron sights these days.
I just drew a cow moose tag in Unit 14 for regular rifle season, will use my 450 Marlin Guide Gun due to it's light weight (I'm getting old) this time, or who knows, maybe my Impact since it's light,too?
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All 3 he mentioned are offered with iron sights. Knights all have that option and some are standard. The new MR-X Colorado comes with them and so do any of the PACNW models. The only real draw back to the Para Pro and MR-X Colorado is the ram rod is for loading only. So if you need to swab you will need another rod to carry with you. Neither have provisions for a rod on the rifle. They come with collapsible rods held together with a bungee cord and a pouch to carry them.
. If I recall it took about 22-23 years to draw the license. It’s in unit 37 and 371 which are up by keystone to the Colorado river. It’s what they call an x license which means you can hunt in all seasons archery, muzzle and rifle.
Update on the moose hunt.
Ordered a paramount pro in June and planed on hunting with it. Well, because of the pandemic the gun never came in so I canceled my order. I thought that could happen so I practiced all summer with my old Renegade 54., I did however changed out the sights to fiber optics. I shot 110 grains of select and powerbelt 348 grain bullets. I was averaging around 2” group at 100’. I hunted hard and on the morning of the fifth day I saw a moose and called him in to twenty yards. First shot hit him behind the shoulder, he walked about 10 yards and I hit him again behind the shoulder. Look back now and I’m glad I didn’t get the Paramount, with open sights I don’t think I could have utilized the extra distance it can shoot.
Ordered a paramount pro in June and planed on hunting with it. Well, because of the pandemic the gun never came in so I canceled my order. I thought that could happen so I practiced all summer with my old Renegade 54., I did however changed out the sights to fiber optics. I shot 110 grains of select and powerbelt 348 grain bullets. I was averaging around 2” group at 100’. I hunted hard and on the morning of the fifth day I saw a moose and called him in to twenty yards. First shot hit him behind the shoulder, he walked about 10 yards and I hit him again behind the shoulder. Look back now and I’m glad I didn’t get the Paramount, with open sights I don’t think I could have utilized the extra distance it can shoot.
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Did you recover those powerbelts? That's kind of a controversial bullet. I would love to see how it performed if you found either one.
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Congrats on finding and getting your moose!
Matthew323
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I recall a story that Doc White told to me about a year ago regarding the difference between a. 50 caliber patched ball rifle, and a .54 caliber (or larger) patched ball rifle.
We were discussing the relative merits of the various calibers common to muzzleloading rifles, and how over the past 30 years the trend for hunters to think that they must move up to larger, and larger, caliber rifles in order to be successful killing game the size of elk & moose.
At a rendezvous back in the late 80's/early 90's, a greenhorn was walking around the camp showing off his brand new. 54 caliber Hawken-style plains rifle. He was telling anyone that would listen how great of an elk killer the .54 caliber was going to be compared to his old .50 caliber rifle.
He asked one of the gray-bearded Old Timer's around the fire what he used to hunt elk with. This was a man, name withheld, that had moved to Colorado as a young man in his early 20's. At the time of this incident, this gentleman was in his early 50's, and had hunted elk every year, for nearly 30 years.
Upon being questioned as to the caliber of rifle he hunted elk with, the Old Timer reached behind himself, and pulled out of his pile of possibles, an Eastern-style longrifle in .50 caliber. He handed it to the greenhorn, and asked him to count the number of notches that had been carved into the stock under the cheekpiece. The greenhorn proceeded to do so, and when asked as to how many notches there were, he replied, "Twenty-one!"
The Old Timer then told him that while his new .54 caliber rifle was surely capable of killing an elk cleanly, it was not the caliber of the rifle, so much as it was the ability of the hunter to get close, and place the patched ball in the animal's vitals.
I find it interesting that over the past 30 years the agencies across the western United States concerned with establishing the fish & game laws have become less, and less knowledgeable about how capable muzzleloading projectiles, especially patched balls, are when it comes to being able to cleanly kill big game like elk & moose.
Your .54 caliber Thompson/Center Renegade is fully capable of cleanly killing an elk, as long as you are capable of closing to a distance where a 0.535" diameter, or 0.530" diameter, patched ball is effective. For most hunters that will be about 75 yards.
If you have a Lyman, or Williams, receiver sight mounted on the Renegade's tang, and if you are comfortable/competent shooting out to 125 yards, then the .54 caliber patched ball will still have enough energy for a clean kill.
Put a .54 caliber lead conical down the Renegade's barrel, and it becomes an even more potent long distance big game rifle. Assuming, of course, that you can deal with the added recoil that comes from moving from a patched ball to a lead conical.
We were discussing the relative merits of the various calibers common to muzzleloading rifles, and how over the past 30 years the trend for hunters to think that they must move up to larger, and larger, caliber rifles in order to be successful killing game the size of elk & moose.
At a rendezvous back in the late 80's/early 90's, a greenhorn was walking around the camp showing off his brand new. 54 caliber Hawken-style plains rifle. He was telling anyone that would listen how great of an elk killer the .54 caliber was going to be compared to his old .50 caliber rifle.
He asked one of the gray-bearded Old Timer's around the fire what he used to hunt elk with. This was a man, name withheld, that had moved to Colorado as a young man in his early 20's. At the time of this incident, this gentleman was in his early 50's, and had hunted elk every year, for nearly 30 years.
Upon being questioned as to the caliber of rifle he hunted elk with, the Old Timer reached behind himself, and pulled out of his pile of possibles, an Eastern-style longrifle in .50 caliber. He handed it to the greenhorn, and asked him to count the number of notches that had been carved into the stock under the cheekpiece. The greenhorn proceeded to do so, and when asked as to how many notches there were, he replied, "Twenty-one!"
The Old Timer then told him that while his new .54 caliber rifle was surely capable of killing an elk cleanly, it was not the caliber of the rifle, so much as it was the ability of the hunter to get close, and place the patched ball in the animal's vitals.
I find it interesting that over the past 30 years the agencies across the western United States concerned with establishing the fish & game laws have become less, and less knowledgeable about how capable muzzleloading projectiles, especially patched balls, are when it comes to being able to cleanly kill big game like elk & moose.
Your .54 caliber Thompson/Center Renegade is fully capable of cleanly killing an elk, as long as you are capable of closing to a distance where a 0.535" diameter, or 0.530" diameter, patched ball is effective. For most hunters that will be about 75 yards.
If you have a Lyman, or Williams, receiver sight mounted on the Renegade's tang, and if you are comfortable/competent shooting out to 125 yards, then the .54 caliber patched ball will still have enough energy for a clean kill.
Put a .54 caliber lead conical down the Renegade's barrel, and it becomes an even more potent long distance big game rifle. Assuming, of course, that you can deal with the added recoil that comes from moving from a patched ball to a lead conical.
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Congratulations on your success. Since I will likely never get to have the experience myself, could you post pictures of your moose?
Why are they controversial?
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Cost vs performance for starters. Its just a lead bullet with a thin copper plating. So many cheaper and better bullets are available.
I was somewhat considered about them. I most likely could have had a different outcome if the shot hit the shoulder. I had a friend moose hunting this year see a hunter shoot a moose with a muzzleloader in the shoulder. He was in a vantage point to see the shot and the moose run a mile up a hill. The moose was never recovered and was seen by Dow officers two weeks later.
