Competing

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X-ring

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Mar 25, 2015
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I was a late comer to B.P. ctg. competitions [or any competition other than M/L blanket shoots] and started at around 40 years of age. At the time I was still full of testosterone and thought I was a pretty good shot. WRONG! I attended my first B.P. Ctg. silhouette match with high expectations. 40 shots for score knocking the steel animals down. My score at the end of the match was a whopping ONE! What a wake up call. Rather than give up I decided to get better. And I did. It never would have happened if I didn't start asking questions and observing. Everybody at the matches were always willing to help and give advise. Great bunch of people who all became friends. I would encourage any of you who read this to take the next step and attend a match or just a practice day before a match. Here in Michigan, we have monthly B.P. Ctg. silhouette matches April-Sept. at Ithaca Mi. and 3 Mid-range matches at Cadillac Mi. Where ever you live, check with your state rifle and pistol assn. or some of the clubs in your state to see what opportunities are available. Contact the match director and ask questions. All match directors are more than happy to see new shooters. I know the guys at Friendship feel the same way. If you want to take your marksmanship skills to the next level, you have to take the plunge. X
 

Idaholewis

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Jun 30, 2017
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The problem with BPCR and the VAST majority of Folks (including myself) is the Cost to get in it, were talking THOUSANDS of Dollars. Believe me I’ve looked in to it :) but it’s WAAAAAAY to Rich for my Blood. If i was gonna get in it, and me being me, I would want the best Stuff obtainable, if I’m gonna compete I want the best, just like the Guy’s I would be shooting against. I am looking at about 5,000.00 for the Rifle and Sights (Shiloh Long Range Express). Then all the Components to load, Which equates to a BUNCH more Money. Then you have to get to the Shoots, Traveling Across the Country, With Gas near 4.00 Dollars a Gallon (I drive a Wore out 96 Toyota Tacoma with 300,000 miles on it, Because that is what i can afford) a new Vehicle is 30 to 40,000.00

Fact is, There are FAR FAR fewer guy’s that can afford to do this than that Can, I have ALWAYS said that it’s a good thing for Guy’s like Dave Gullo (2 or 3 time World Champion and NUMEROUS other Records/Wins, Etc.) That Not everyone can afford to play the BPCR Game (in fact Very few of us can, Hence why there are so few people in it, when compared to say Archery) FACT IS, There are PLENTY of us Backwoods Boys that can FLAT OUT Shoot :) But VERY few of us that can Afford the HIGH Cost of BPCRs, and traveling all over the country to compete with them

Look at the Money that it costs Dave Gullo and the others to Shoot, They travel ALL over the WORLD, just their Travel expenses alone is FAR Beyond what i can afford. Not everyone owns a Buffalo Arms Co. like Mr. Gullo does to help finance all that Stuff.

I do what i do with 200 Dollar TC Renegades & Hawken Stocks, with 200-400 dollar after market barrels in them, Because that’s what i can afford
 
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Dec 30, 2020
Messages
288
Lew, do you have any black powder cartridge guns? Just curious. One day I’d like to get one but it’s just not in my cards for now (2 year old and 3 month old). Maybe one day I’ll get one and play around with it. Probably just for fun shooting and some hunting
 

Matthew323

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Feb 15, 2020
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1,428
Black powder shooting, at the competitive level, BPCR, patched ball bench rest, smokeless, whatever game one wants to compete in, will quickly become expensive. At some point, the ability of the shooter is going to want to equip himself/herself with the best quality so as to be as competitive as the next shooter. Like Lewis said, unless one happens to have a large disposable income, over & above all other needs, then it quickly becomes a burden. If you are single, with no attachments, it's fine. How many people in their 30's and older can claim that?

I went down the competition road in tennis & skiing, where the equipment wears out quickly, and unless you are sponsored, the costs are formidable.
 

Idaholewis

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Jun 30, 2017
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Lew, do you have any black powder cartridge guns? Just curious. One day I’d like to get one but it’s just not in my cards for now (2 year old and 3 month old). Maybe one day I’ll get one and play around with it. Probably just for fun shooting and some hunting
No I don’t own a BPCR, I would love to someday, The 1874 Shiloh Sharps is an ICONIC Rifle that SCREAMS Americana :lewis: but it’s not likely that i will ever own one as they are WAY beyond what i can afford. Pedersoli makes a Replica, But it’s NOT a Shiloh :( I have no interest in the Pedersoli
 

Matthew323

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One of the dumbest things I have ever done was to sell my Farmington, Shiloh Sharps, 1863, .54 caliber, percussion, drop-block rifle. It was first, or second year of production, took like 7-8 months to arrive after I ordered it. While the percussion rifles are not as desireable, or collectable, as the cartridge rifles, they still have gone up in value quite a bit over what I paid for mine.
 

Idaholewis

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Jun 30, 2017
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My post above was not meant to discourage anyone, I was simply stating a Fact that BPCR and traveling to the Shoots is a VERY expensive Sport/Hobby. If you can afford it, by all means JUMP IN and go for it :lewis: But those that push it need to realize that not everyone can afford to do what they do, just look at a list of Shooters at a BPCR event, it’s a very short list :)
 

45-70

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Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
co
The problem with BPCR and the VAST majority of Folks (including myself) is the Cost to get in it, were talking THOUSANDS of Dollars. Believe me I’ve looked in to it :) but it’s WAAAAAAY to Rich for my Blood. If i was gonna get in it, and me being me, I would want the best Stuff obtainable, if I’m gonna compete I want the best, just like the Guy’s I would be shooting against. I am looking at about 5,000.00 for the Rifle and Sights (Shiloh Long Range Express). Then all the Components to load, Which equates to a BUNCH more Money. Then you have to get to the Shoots, Traveling Across the Country, With Gas near 4.00 Dollars a Gallon (I drive a Wore out 96 Toyota Tacoma with 300,000 miles on it, Because that is what i can afford) a new Vehicle is 30 to 40,000.00

Fact is, There are FAR FAR fewer guy’s that can afford to do this than that Can, I have ALWAYS said that it’s a good thing for Guy’s like Dave Gullo (2 or 3 time World Champion and NUMEROUS other Records/Wins, Etc.) That Not everyone can afford to play the BPCR Game (in fact Very few of us can, Hence why there are so few people in it, when compared to say Archery) FACT IS, There are PLENTY of us Backwoods Boys that can FLAT OUT Shoot :) But VERY few of us that can Afford the HIGH Cost of BPCRs, and traveling all over the country to compete with them

Look at the Money that it costs Dave Gullo and the others to Shoot, They travel ALL over the WORLD, just their Travel expenses alone is FAR Beyond what i can afford. Not everyone owns a Buffalo Arms Co. like Mr. Gullo does to help finance all that Stuff.

I do what i do with 200 Dollar TC Renegades & Hawken Stocks, with 200-400 dollar after market barrels in them, Because that’s what i can afford
come to Oak Ridge and shoot in muzzle loading match 1000 yds. , the rifle you are using will compete. I got into BPCR with 1200 dollars using a browning BPCR and eventually set 300 yd, record for seniors. It has been broken now but you do not need 5000 dollar Shiloh Sharps
 

45-70

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Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,194
My post above was not meant to discourage anyone, I was simply stating a Fact that BPCR and traveling to the Shoots is a VERY expensive Sport/Hobby. If you can afford it, by all means JUMP IN and go for it :lewis: But those that push it need to realize that not everyone can afford to do what they do, just look at a list of Shooters at a BPCR event, it’s a very short list :)
kind of sounds that way Lew , not meaning to start anything, we just had 75 shooters over last week end at NMLRA regional BPCR
 

X-ring

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Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
60
co

come to Oak Ridge and shoot in muzzle loading match 1000 yds. , the rifle you are using will compete. I got into BPCR with 1200 dollars using a browning BPCR and eventually set 300 yd, record for seniors. It has been broken now but you do not need 5000 dollar Shiloh Sharps
[/QUOTE
My post above was not meant to discourage anyone, I was simply stating a Fact that BPCR and traveling to the Shoots is a VERY expensive Sport/Hobby. If you can afford it, by all means JUMP IN and go for it :lewis: But those that push it need to realize that not everyone can afford to do what they do, just look at a list of Shooters at a BPCR event, it’s a very short list :)
All NRA Black Powder Target Rifle competitions have MUZZLELOADER CLASS. If you have a fast twist barrel that can shoot big bullets, you have everything you need to compete at mid or long range. Most if not all match directors would be more than happy to let anybody who shows interest, come to shoot on a practice day for little or no cost. Of course, contact the match director first! They are always looking for converts. To practice on the Friday before one of our silhouette matches at Ithaca Mi. would cost you a whopping $5.00. 200-300-385 and 500 meters. Where there is a will, there is a way. X
 

Idaholewis

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Jun 30, 2017
Messages
7,284
2nd page of This thread explains precisely how i feel

I went to a BPCR Shoot back in early Spring to check it out, it was in Micah Washington, i rode with a friend of mine that invited me along. That was enough to last me a Lifetime :lewis:

Believe me fellas i am not against what you do, In fact i am the reason this BPCR Sub Forum is here for you to post in, I asked for it for you guy’s, and here we are :)
 
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Idaholewis

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Jun 30, 2017
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7,284
sorry you had bad experience
It wasn’t a bad experience Bob, I am just not in to that kind of stuff. I think the world of the Guy that invited me along, I enjoy his Company anytime i get the chance to visit with him, I don’t regret going along, But that 1 time was enough to last me a Lifetime.

It would be no different if i went to Friendship, I would THOROUGHLY enjoy Sitting down and visiting with you, and Bestill, But as far as Competitive Shooting i have ZERO desire for it. It takes the Fun out of Shooting for me, It becomes serious and the Fun is gone. I understand you guy’s that live & love to Shoot Competitively, I have friends that are the exact same way in Shotgun (Trap) and Archery (3D Tournaments) I use to do both and Excelled in them, But the Fun went away for me and I began to HATE it, Even though i did awesome in Both. I ended up selling My Competition Shotguns, and haven't shot my Bow in MANY Years now. I don’t want to do this to myself in Muzzleloading
 
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Cobweb

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Jul 18, 2014
Messages
43
It wasn’t a bad experience Bob, I am just not in to that kind of stuff. I think the world of the Guy that invited me along, I enjoy his Company anytime i get the chance to visit with him, I don’t regret going along, But that 1 time was enough to last me a Lifetime.

It would be no different if i went to Friendship, I would THOROUGHLY enjoy Sitting down and visiting with you, and Bestill, But as far as Competitive Shooting i have ZERO desire for it. It takes the Fun out of Shooting for me, It becomes serious and the Fun is gone. I understand you guy’s that live & love to Shoot Competitively, I have friends that are the exact same way in Shotgun (Trap) and Archery (3D Tournaments) I use to do both and Excelled in them, But the Fun went away for me and I began to HATE it, Even though i did awesome in Both. I ended up selling My Competition Shotguns, and haven't shot my Bow in MANY Years now. I don’t want to do this to myself in Muzzleloading
Lewis I can relate!
I shot competively for years but the difference for me was "I shot to have a good time!" If I had a good day and finished well, I was happy! If I shot and didn't do so well, I was happy! I saw a lot of fellow shooters take the shooting way to serious and left the fun out of it, not me. My family made many a friend and most became family from shooting together. I read several muzzle loading forums each day but seldom participate in them. I guess I'd better start participating and make some new friends!
I sure wish I could get around and shoot now but it isn't going to take place soon. Both of my knees need replacing but I have some heart issues keeping me from getting them done. We used to have a big faction of shoots here in Missouri. I went to 22 club shoots between 1st of April and end of October. That didn't leave many open weekends during the summer.
I tried the table shooting game and loved it but all of a sudden there weren't any shooters in this neck of the woods. I'm the only muzzle loading shooter left in my club so thats that! The nearest side lock shoots are near the 100 mile mark for me.
I haven't given up entirely but just don't like shooting by myself against my self. Our club is getting big in the .22 shooting so looking to join them if I want to shoot something.

Big John
 
Joined
May 21, 2016
Messages
259
BPCR and any 19th century cartridge single shot rifles can be a deep diving rabbit hole, that's for sure.

Waaay back in the day, the H&R .45-70 Buffalo Classic was THE entry rifle that started many BPCR addiction, including mine. That break open action rifle only suffered slightly as it would require sticking on a rear vernier sight to the tang, and that meant have front and rear sights on different moving planes = not good for long range consistency where mere fractions of an inch mattered. But for short 100 to 300 yard matches it was a darn good entry rifle, and I used mine for 200 yard paper matches with decent results. I've not found a viable replacement for the H&R BC. The Henry H015-4570 single shot is a good gun and would be legal at most local shoots. It's a break open and will have long range issues for iron sights, but it's a darned good gun, I've had one.

Proper vernier soule and spirit globe sights can run from a few hundred and way on up. I use a Lee Shaver super grade match set that goes for about $600 all up.

The other issue is cartridges, where to stay in practice and be competitive means loading yer own, necessitating getting tooling. Better yet, and easier to build are paper patch bullets, where once a case is fire formed it's possible to load accurate cartridges without touching a loading press. Casting yer own alloy bullets is a must and Tom @ Accurate molds offers good ones for cheap.

As to the current crop of BPCR Sharps and rollers, Shiloh and C.Sharps and CPA are some of the really good ones with really big price tags. Do NOT rule out Pedersoli, however. I've literally lost count of the Pedi's I've had in both rollers and Sharps actions, and IMHO all were quite competitive, with good bbls. My current BPCR started off as a Pedersoli 1874 that I bought for $1200 in .40-65 cartridge and had it reamed and chrome-moly lined by Lee Shaver, and custom chambered for .45-70 PPBs - it will not load standard .45-70 Gov't cartridges. I reform new or fired cartridges with a .45-70 sizing die that I modified. From that point on, the fire formed brass is reused as is. I do use an Annealeez to anneal the brass every 2 or 3 firings, but annealing is all that necessary, IMHO. I have brass that's been fired and reused many dozens of times without annealing.

Anyhoo, DGW still offers a nice Pedi 1874 Sharps in .45-70 for $1225 ...

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... you can start off using the supplied bbl sights for match shooting, too!

Just checked .... as expected, out of stock! Dang!
 
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